Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

First Riot Post
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LegendReborn

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidarr View Post
It's weird to me how people are only fairly recently realizing what Kog'Maw can do. He's hardly changed at all since release.
This is true with Shaco and Ezreal as they were completely overlooked for quite a while. However there is a reason why Kog'maw has been overlooked and that is because of the metagame shift. Before Kog'maw was decent but because most champions lingered around 2k health with strong burst Kog'maw was a pretty easy target. But if you look at the current metagame we have a decent focus on tanky champions.


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Zardoc

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Why exactly is Mal'zahar "hard to place on a team" ?


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SwordOrShield

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Oh, yeah, one other statement.

Corki's rocking now. Part of this seems to be that people have forgotten what the hell you do when you're up against him, but, I'm rockin' out on his toboggan. He's especially good versus Miss Fortune, so, uh...

...Yeah, been having fun with all the people playing her.


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Cruzerthebruzer

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by vidarr View Post
It's weird to me how people are only fairly recently realizing what Kog'Maw can do. He's hardly changed at all since release.
It's weird to me that Kog'Maw got buffed in like 4 patches in a row and people think he's hardly changed.


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EmergencyCombo

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoc View Post
Why exactly is Mal'zahar "hard to place on a team" ?
This is from the first page.

"Let's use Malzahar as an example for a properly-placed low-tier character that I think some players misunderstand. Elementz places Malzahar in the bottom tier/unwise choices bucket. Some players respond saying how they own with Malzahar, or how his ultimate can get kills easily, how his Q has a silence and how his DoT can push a lane really well.

While these might all be true, they don't address his location at the bottom of the list. People are aware how his skills work and how they can be used - that's obvious - what puts a character low in the tier list is how much value, in power and utility, the champion adds to the team.

So, in our Malzahar example, try to think of anything he brings to the team that is not bested by one or more other characters;

* Damage: a high number of champions offer more reliable, higher damage (both burst and sustained) than Malzahar.

* Crowd Control: most champions focused on disables do it better and more reliably. His Q is easily avoidable and his one stun is a long cooldown, stuns himself, and only effects one target. Compare this to options like Pyromania, Dark Wind, or Dazzle.

* Jungling: Malzahar is a poor choice for jungling, so this is less applicable in this example.

* Initiation: Malz is a squishy champion with poor initiation ability. Many champions perform this role better.

* Area-Effect: This is the one thing Malzahar can do, but it remains lackluster. His W takes a long time to reach any sizable damage, Q is slow and unreliable, and his DoT spreadis avoidable by paying attention.

* Pushing: Malzahar pushes better than many casters, but worse than dedicated pushers (while offering little else on top of it).

So, if we look at his value-add to a team comp, it's much lower than other champions. This puts him in low-tier, and makes him a choice that is constantly outshined by other options when choosing your character in a draft mode when your priority is strong team composition.

This does not mean he's not fun, or can't do ANYthing, or will always feed, or it takes a pro to get the most out of him, or any other such nonsense. He's a character who adds less value to his team than others do, and players choosing him should understand and accept the handicap they're putting themselves and their team in."


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liilo

Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkingBrute View Post
This list lost credibility when KogMaw went from bottom tier to top just because people figured out that a madreds works better than AP.

This list seems a step behind, and while it being reactive is nice, its pretty clear that it isnt the cutting edge or anywhere close for competitive pickinz.
He just won WCG NA
CLG has by far the most experience and insight into competitive play at this point so... you're wrong.


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Realaz

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmergencyCombo View Post
There is no way at all that she is better than Vlad mid. Or Vlad in general. Vlad is the best solo mid character in the game.

Hell, why run her over Teemo? Don't say I have a lack of knowledge on Kat. I bought her a while ago and I tried as hard as I possibly could and there just isn't any way that she is better than almost anyone in the entire cast.

More importantly, what does she bring to a team besides an ult that requires her to put herself in danger?
I never got beat by a Vlad. I hover around 1600 before you ask.
What she brings is early kills which make her snowball to the point where your ult alone will kill a champion from full HP.
And to the other poster, I can easily say that if I dominated with her some 20+ games in a row, that's not situational in any way. You just have to be clever about placing your ult. Those available CCs mean nothing when they're already blown. And even top 10 players more often than not make the mistake of using a skill too early.


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Ewyx

Junior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoc View Post
Why exactly is Mal'zahar "hard to place on a team" ?
While I'm hardly a high-elo player, I think his problem is that he doesn't bring all that much to a 5v5. He's amazing for ganks and smaller fights. But in mass team fights, he'll stun somebody, and nuke him over time. Chances are he'll be taken out of the fight first. A stun is all it takes.

Personally I love mal, he's really fun to play. But I have to admit, the more the game drags on, his abilities tend to grow less useful. I'd maybe put him on t4, mostly because I think there aren't that many dedicated high-elo mal players. Elementz has admitted that Aniv is good when in good hands. I think it's the same for malz.


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PayForYourSins

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Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realaz View Post
I never got beat by a Vlad. I hover around 1600 before you ask.
What she brings is early kills which make her snowball to the point where your ult alone will kill a champion from full HP.
And to the other poster, I can easily say that if I dominated with her some 20+ games in a row, that's not situational in any way. You just have to be clever about placing your ult. Those available CCs mean nothing when they're already blown. And even top 10 players more often than not make the mistake of using a skill too early.
You played bad vlads then. There's no reason a vlad should get outlaned by kat mid...


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ChiefMasterWhite

Senior Member

09-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewyx View Post
While I'm hardly a high-elo player, I think his problem is that he doesn't bring all that much to a 5v5. He's amazing for ganks and smaller fights. But in mass team fights, he'll stun somebody, and nuke him over time. Chances are he'll be taken out of the fight first. A stun is all it takes.

Personally I love mal, he's really fun to play. But I have to admit, the more the game drags on, his abilities tend to grow less useful. I'd maybe put him on t4, mostly because I think there aren't that many dedicated high-elo mal players. Elementz has admitted that Aniv is good when in good hands. I think it's the same for malz.
Anivia allows for more room skillwise than malz. A good anivia will always outdo a good malz. Malz is very limited and is outdone by most casters one way or another. Supression helps, but not enough.

What I would like to know is why Janna continuously moves down on the tier list when most heroes get nerfs rather than buffs, and she remains untouched.

also @ poster above talking about kogmaw viability and why he made a jump. the meta changed and specific heroes got nerfed (heimer, shaco, ezreal to be specific) Kogmaw fits into the current meta very well and can counter most of the tankier of dps.