Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

First Riot Post
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Leirkov

Senior Member

08-31-2010

With the upcoming Mundo buffs, will he be moved up a tier (or two) or still be hard to place?


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Elementz

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The Council

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUKTRUK View Post
what are your thoughts on nunu in 5v5? i usually jungle with him and have just under a 6-1 ka/d ratio in ranked games. my elo isn't the greatest but i do feel like nunu is a decent tank with excellent support abilities along with a devastating ult (that is easily cancelled).

you mentioned he could use a buff, what would you consider? make his ult harder to cancel but do less damage?
Nunu really needs a damage shield on his ulti. I've suggested a 75/150/225 damage shield. It works as a banshee's veil but can also be broken on damage as well. So its not a super banshee's veil. It's a weaker version that can be broken with some focus fire and a well timed interrupt and ultimately just helps Nunu get his ulti off instead of it being insta gibbed.

As far as his Q I think it could stand to do a -stat debuff when he bites someone. Heals himself and then debuff's the target for 10/12/14/16/18% of their AP and AD for 5 seconds. Or something along those lines. I believe this would bring him up to tier 2 easily and make him viable without being OP.


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Ulquiorra Cifer

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Member

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giganti****** View Post
Just some comments and suggestions.

Fiddlesticks should be at least in tier 2, and he's almost always superior to Vladimir and Kennen. He has a 3 second fear that pretty much guarantees a kill, an AoE silence that hits many enemies even when they're far apart and which can also be used to nuke a single target, a drain that can practically tank a dps champion in midgame and an ultimate which is still insane; 350 + 0.35 AP for 5 seconds will instagib practically anyone but tanks if they're in it for the full duration, and it is easy to place because of the built-in flash, the ghost summoner spell and syncs well with the current AoE fad (Amumu/Galio/Morgana ults). Though you said nerfs hit Fiddle, his AP ratios are still great; 0.2*10 on Dark Wind, 0.4*6 on Drain and 0.35*5 on Crowstorm. Compare this with 0.2*5 on Morgana's Tormented Soil and 0.5*2 on Anivia's Flash Frost and Frostbite.

Cho'Gath needs to move up a few tiers as well. His high base stats and 900 bonus health from Feast make him inherently tanky and he has terrific CC, which a tank needs. A 4 second (!!) AoE silence wins teamfights and Rupture has a huge casting range and is large, which makes it great for initiation when placed correctly (for example, to the place their carries will most likely run). On top of that, Feast is a huge nuke and finisher that will make him a threat to any squishy, his spikes give him reasonable sustained damage and his passive gives laning stayability. He's always a solid pick.

Alistar's Pulverize does the same as Rupture but is only castable when you stand in the middle of them. It will have little uses for initation and is not that strong in teamfights against players with proper positioning. The same goes for headbutt, which is nice but requires you to get _behind_ your target (which is most likely on the back of their team) while you have the lowest base movement speed in the game. After Ali uses these two spells, he's absolutely worthless in a fight because the heal has been nerfed a lot, his passive is useless and his ult simply gives the enemy more reason to ignore him. His autoattacks are worse than cho's (Vorpal Spikes), Rammus's (passive AD) or Shen's (Ki Strike) and the magic damage from all his abilities is usually less than the damage from Cho's Feast alone, which is also true damage. Simply put, there's never a reason to pick Alistar and he should be bottom tier.

Why would Pantheon be tier 2 material? Since his nerfs, his early game is not that OP anymore and lategame he'll just suck. He's almost entirely reliant on his abilities for damage, which makes him a close range mage with mediocre burst and no survivability/escape mechanism. There's no place for him in a team, since most melees or mages are simply better.

Malphite deserves some love. He got buffed recently which gave him more armor and damage, and his ult is probably the best initiation in the game. He's unharassable in lane and unpokable before team fights thanks to his passive, and a long-range targeted slow and huge AoE damage (especially with sunfire capes, which boost his Ground Slam further and work with his passive) make him a persistent threat. Probably one of the better tanks.

You should definitely move Shen down. The only viable build on him is pure tank, and having only one cc, a small texture (harder to block skillshots for your team with) and no persistent threat he's not that good at it. His taunt has a short range and is hard to place, so it's not that useful for initiation, and it has a 10s cooldown. After that he's pretty much ignorable, and now that his ult doesn't shield himself anymore and since Feint only blocks 250 damage at the max rank, his inherent survivability isn't that great either. Sure, his ult and taunt are good for saving allies, but that would be after someone else has initiated, and you're supposed to be the main tank. I think he's an overrated champ that's outshined by other tanks.

Besides those, I think Vladimir, while annoying with his anti-cc pool (which takes 20% health, so isn't that good for avoiding damage) and deceptive ult, is a mediocre overall champ. To deal damage that's comparable with other mages, he has to spam Tides of Blood consecutively while standing in the middle of their team, and he'll drop very quickly by that.

Nunu isn't viable at all on high elo because his ult is interrupted easily, his passive, Consume and Blood Boil effect on himself are useless, and that leaves him with very little. Should be bottom tier.

Why is Nidalee so high on the list? Don't see her in your explanation list, and she seems pretty mediocre to me. And is Sivir in tier 2 just for her pushing ability? Tristana and Yi can do that just as well and bring more to the table in teamfights.

I think Olaf fits great into the tanky dps metagame and could be on par with Garen. He's immune to cc (which is OP atm) and is great on a team thanks to his jungling ability. Speaking of which, Warwick in tier 2 is an exaggaration in my view, because despite his incredible ability to jungle and gank (which others have as well) he's really bad in teamfights.

Veigar should be placed back into a lower tier, since as a mage he's entirely reliant on burst which is avoidable, and as a counterpick against other mages, Kassadin/Fiddle's silence are usually even more effective. Not a great pick.

Thoughts?
gotta love when ppl type so many wrong things so convincingly


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CoMaNdOoO

Senior Member

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elementz View Post
Nunu really needs a damage shield on his ulti. I've suggested a 75/150/225 damage shield. It works as a banshee's veil but can also be broken on damage as well. So its not a super banshee's veil. It's a weaker version that can be broken with some focus fire and a well timed interrupt and ultimately just helps Nunu get his ulti off instead of it being insta gibbed.

As far as his Q I think it could stand to do a -stat debuff when he bites someone. Heals himself and then debuff's the target for 10/12/14/16/18% of their AP and AD for 5 seconds. Or something along those lines. I believe this would bring him up to tier 2 easily and make him viable without being OP.
This would make him OP in TT.

But who cares right? Mundo is the best champ in TT and is receiving some buff in the next patch anyway.


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Elementz

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The Council

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoMaNdOoO View Post
This would make him OP in TT.

But who cares right? Mundo is the best champ in TT and is receiving some buff in the next patch anyway.
Yeah he would prolly be tier 1 with that in TT. I didn't think about that. But.. TBH TT is already incredibly imbalanced and is impossible to be completely balanced while also balancing the game around 5v5. You can get close but there will always be those champs like Mundo, Nunu(if he got those buffs) who are just too good on TT while only being mediocre on SR.

On who would care? BigMcLargeHuge would. All he does is post about TT in Council XD. So many threads... About TT... XD


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Kuranith

Senior Member

08-31-2010

Twitch uppage plz. hes tier 3, yet he has a stealth, about 2.0 extra AS in steroids, poision, AOE slow, and a massive pentrating attack. he ults with kayles ult and maybe black shield and hes killed your whole team. thoughts?


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BigTwig

Senior Member

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giganti****** View Post
Thoughts?
-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra Cifer View Post
gotta love when ppl type so many wrong things so convincingly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elementz View Post
My thoughts are.. Let's agree to completely disagree.
Oh, how I appreciate the eloquent and insightful discussion that takes place here... Why post if you can't think of a meaningful response to my argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elementz View Post
You know you can headbutt / pulverize right? Making it so they don't fly away. Also can headbutt into a fight and catch the other 2-3 people around your target you just knock out of the team fight.
When you've positioned yourself to initiate with headbutt and knock someone out of the fight (not into your team, and they'll be back in two seconds) any competent team will have spread out a little. 200 range aoe for Pulverize is not much. Malphite can charge and stun from almost twice the range of headbutt and not be useless after casting two spells.


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Cruzerthebruzer

Senior Member

08-31-2010

Did someone just say Pantheon didn't get nerfed? Lol wtf?

First they fixed the bug and compensated for the damage reduction then that's when people said he was OP, then they nerfed him.


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Ulquiorra Cifer

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Member

08-31-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giganti****** View Post
Oh, how I appreciate the eloquent and insightful discussion that takes place here... Why post if you can't think of a meaningful response to my argument?



When you've positioned yourself to initiate with headbutt and knock someone out of the fight (not into your team, and they'll be back in two seconds) any competent team will have spread out a little. 200 range aoe for Pulverize is not much. Malphite can charge and stun from almost twice the range of headbutt and not be useless after casting two spells.
first of all your questions have been answered multiple times already in the forum.
You can knock them up as soon as pulverize ends which means the enemy team doesn't have enough time to react. With malphite its more of a 1 hit wonder his ult has a 140/120/100sec cooldown has a small radius if it misses or your team fails to capitalize on it you become a pretty useless. Why pick malphite while jana can do the knock up much more frequent and be so much more supportive to the team.


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Akyio

Senior Member

08-31-2010

Hey Elementz, why didn't you put Ryze back to tier 3 when he was buffed ? ^^
He actually isn't that bad.. I played him now and i did like the buffs, some nice cooldown and 1-2 levels of W is enough now to set up combo. I played today him and our team lacked magical dps, so I took him and well I was quite amazed, I caught 3 guys, just R, W, E, Q and they are all like ~30% hp, then the team finishes them off.
he hasn't changed so much but 10% CDR is really nice, some extra magic resist debuff on quishies as well.