Elementz 5v5 Tier List (Draft Mode)

First Riot Post
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Space Traveler

Senior Member

11-10-2010

I've said some dumb **** in this thread but **** all of it dude. :P


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MathMage

Senior Member

11-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato View Post
What? Obviously. Except, I'm referring to only this patch's changes. I would hope that a reader would be competent enough to understand that. Before this patch's changes, Corki was tier 3. After this patch's changes, Corki is tier 1.

After the huge wave of Corki buffs in the MF patch, he still remained relatively unpopular and in tier 3. How many months ago was that? Two? After the small wave of Corki buffs in our current patch, he somehow is now the best champion in the game and has sprung into FotM popularity.
The adoption cycle is such that there's a delay between when buffs happen and when the champion becomes FotM. Corki players, the innovators, play him and enjoy the buff; then Elementz, an early adopter, runs into enough good Corki players to influence his opinion of Corki; then Elementz determines his new placement on the tier list; then thousands of sheep become the early majority. And the magnitude of the tier list's following gives it a certain inertia, which has to be overcome by a big enough event to warrant a change. Hence Galio was finally bumped up after WCG, and Corki was finally bumped up after the latest round of buffs. This can also cause an overreaction, as with TF after WCG.

Basically, it's easier for Elementz to make big changes after many small buffs have accumulated than to try to account for each buff in every patch. Most updates to his list are either big moves (two tiers or more), or piddly little shifts up and down in a tier by a few spots. Medium-sized changes are harder to spot--that's why Rammus, for example, took an extra two weeks to reach t2 once his jungling prowess was buffed, to the degree that it actually came after a nerf. So one could plausibly argue 'Rammus was nerfed, and then Elementz bumped him up a tier; clearly Elementz is out of touch!' But it's actually just the inertia at work.


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Potato

Master Recruiter

11-10-2010

What I'm speculating and wanting to point out is the flaws and bias of Elementz's tiers and the reparations this buff has for Corki.

I can guarantee that Corki will be coming out of this situation worse than how he went in. Even if the changes this patch were reverted, he would still be T1 or top T2 material. He simply wasn't recognized pre-patch. Now, because he is recognized and is T1, there won't be an end to this madness.


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Le Moine

Junior Member

11-10-2010

I find the list accurate for a large part of the champs and interesting to read and compare with what is my personnal felling about them.
BUT your list really need more explanation, and you need to take more preventive actions against the bad use a large part of the community does of it.
I have read the posts complaining about that, and I saw your answers. It emerges that you really can't bear any criticism. Even in this post, when you answer guys trying to argue against you about a champ, you often go see their stats, if not hight elo, pointing that, end of the story. But, the fact is the list is by a majority used by mid Elo players (or low). You have to consider that now.

You did a lot for the community, taking time to answer, improving understanding of the game for lots of players, including me. But you can't keep deny the bad use of the tier list by a part of the community.
Maybe, you should review the introduction of the tier list, encouraging players to not blame their mates for taking any champ (particularly low tier ones). Explain also their should better concentrate on the global composition of the team (cause it s really not always the case).

Hope you will not rage about that.


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MathMage

Senior Member

11-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato View Post
What I'm speculating and wanting to point out is the flaws and bias of Elementz's tiers and the reparations this buff has for Corki.

I can guarantee that Corki will be coming out of this situation worse than how he went in. Even if the changes this patch were reverted, he would still be T1 or top T2 material. He simply wasn't recognized pre-patch. Now, because he is recognized and is T1, there won't be an end to this madness.
Except you haven't pointed out any major flaw or bias, just QQ'd about the delay between Corki's buffs and his tier list bump. And was he really better than Ashe, MF, Twitch, Kog before the buffs? A small absolute shift can be a large relative one when champions are fairly close in balance overall. It's been the consensus for a long time that Corki was 'fine, just underplayed'.


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MathMage

Senior Member

11-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Moine View Post
I find the list accurate for a large part of the champs and interesting to read and compare with what is my personnal felling about them.
BUT your list really need more explanation, and you need to take more preventive actions against the bad use a large part of the community does of it.
I have read the posts complaining about that, and I saw your answers. It emerges that you really can't bear any criticism. Even in this post, when you answer guys trying to argue against you about a champ, you often go see their stats, if not hight elo, pointing that, end of the story. But, the fact is the list is by a majority used by mid Elo players (or low). You have to consider that now.

You did a lot for the community, taking time to answer, improving understanding of the game for lots of players, including me. But you can't keep deny the bad use of the tier list by a part of the community.
Maybe, you should review the introduction of the tier list, encouraging players to not blame their mates for taking any champ (particularly low tier ones). Explain also their should better concentrate on the global composition of the team (cause it s really not always the case).

Hope you will not rage about that.
All of that is covered in the first post. There's a limit to what Elementz can do when the problem is with players who don't read most of what he writes to begin with, and just drool over the list itself.


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Merana

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Senior Member

11-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato View Post
What? Obviously. Except, I'm referring to only this patch's changes. I would hope that a reader would be competent enough to understand that. Before this patch's changes, Corki was tier 3. After this patch's changes, Corki is tier 1.

After the huge wave of Corki buffs in the MF patch, he still remained relatively unpopular and in tier 3. How many months ago was that? Two? After the small wave of Corki buffs in our current patch, he somehow is now the best champion in the game and has sprung into FotM popularity.
A great scaling hero with a slow and **** escape that cannot reliably go over terrain without humping it to the sprite sounds like a tier 2/3. A great scaling hero with buffed laning/poking and a much better escape sounds like a very tier 1 champion to me.


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Shaya

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Senior Member

11-10-2010

anyone who has not yet experienced corki in ranked play is just fooling themselves.

MOST OF THE TIME, Element's is behind what everyone else is saying.

The only surprises that come about are bump ups of long-unchanged characters that he changes opinions on (Ashe, Poppy) or just like "wait a second guys, shaco sucks now, WW IS THE BEST JUNGLER TIER 1"


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FVD3D

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Senior Member

11-10-2010

I think everything he says is just common sense. I cant believe this thread is even still alive.

He has been wrong plenty of times, will continue to be wrong and I dont understand why people care about his opinion so much lol. Look at tier 1. It's obvious isnt it?


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Ping Tang

Junior Member

11-10-2010

Elementz, you think you could break down why you think Mundo is hard to place on a team? With his ult getting buffed and providing the survivability that Mundo was lacking, and his clever doing an insane amount of dmg. He seems to be worthy of at least a numbered tier. Lately I've been playing with him and absolutely dominating, before I used to just die once I initiated but since the change, he seems better than ever. Plus he's fun as hell.