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The Udyr Math Thread

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Senior Member


Because of the remake incoming on the PTR, I felt it was needed to take another look at Udyr after the changes. It didn't take a mathematical breakdown to know Phoenix scaled better and did way more damage than Tiger against anything but structures, but lets see how close the patch will put the two.

Base DPS Analysis:
Without any items, runes, or masteries, Udyr has a base damage of 108 at level 18, a critical chance of 8.98% and an attack speed of .937
Average DPS: 101.2 (110.31 with Critical)
Average DPS with Tiger: 172 (187.48)
Average DPS with Phoenix: 170.5 (181.63)

Single target wise, Tiger appears to win, but these numbers do lie however in that a good portion of Phoenix's damage is Magic, a defense most commonly lower than Armor.

Attack Speed of +50% (1312.5 GP investment using Recurve Bow):
Tiger: 222.6 (242.6)
Phoenix: 240.8 (256.1)

Attack Damage of +33.65 (Same investment, used Pickaxe)
Tiger: 225.63 (246)
Phoenix: 202.03 (216)

Max Attack Speed is achieved at +166% (Tiger Stance caps this number at 96%, with passive can achieve this at 66%). So if we factor in Triforce's 25%, that leaves him with 41% to play with in Attack Speed before he starts to "waste". Madreds, Last Whisper, Phantom Dancer, or Starks?

Conclusion: Phoenix still scales very well with attack speed (but not extremely well), but if you want a 5 Phoenix, 5 Tiger build, you can't stack it for maximum DPS. Last Whisper + Magic Penetration runes looks like the way to go. Of course, you may be switching out of Tiger Stance enough that the 2.5 cap may not bother you.

I'll be comparing their active effects next. Please respond with any further calculations or if I've misinformed anyone with a wrong number somewhere.

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I've been unconvinced that udyr is anything but bad for a while, hopefully the patch will inspire me otherwise.

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Senior Member


Active Benefits of Phoenix and Tiger:
Tiger has an interesting quirk in that it can front load a ton of damage. So I will post two analysis of his actives, the optimal setup and the average.

Optimal Tiger: You prep it in the bush or on route, rush in and activate it again for your second hit, stancing into phoenix before actually hitting the opponent. Bear stance is going to be more useful for it's stun, but we're talking damage here. Phoenix will net you another 72 Magic damage on Tiger Stances active.

6x Bleed (+144 damage from Phoenix), 2 Regular Attacks (+48 damage from Phoenix):
At 108 Base damage, that's 792 Magic Damage, 264 Physical Damage.
At 200 Base damage, that's 1344 Magic Damage, and 448 Physical Damage.

For a regular setup, just half these numbers and maybe subtract Phoenix's bonus:
Base Tiger no buffs: 324 Magic Damage, 108 Physical damage.

Optimal Phoenix: The enemy stays in for each and every tick, and we shall assume two targets (yea, really impractical, but it's just for theory)

At 5 Ticks, base 55, plus 12 damage from bonus Ability power:
335 magic damage to each target, 670 in our optimal setting. Please note that due to 5 pulses, Udyr gains AP * 1.25 to his total damage done.

Jungle Udyr's with Phoenix may wish to consider slightly more AP alongside Attack Speed in order to make up for his Jungling nef. Haunting Guise first comes to mind for it's Magic Pen and Spell Vamp.