The All Encompassing Ranged and Melee Attack Damage Carry Itemization Guide

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wildfire393

Senior Member

05-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverdevilboy View Post
Please do not feed the trolls.

DPS items by value/cost:

Sword of the Occult with full stacks: 3.68
Madred's vs 3k HP: 1.89
Stacked Guinsoos: 1.88
Sword of the Occult with 10 stacks: 1.67
Stacked Bloodthirster: 1.48
Wit's End including burn: 1.46
Phantom Dancer: 1.37 including movement speed.
Brutaliser: 1.34
Madred's vs a 1500HP enemy: 1.29
Last Whisper vs 80 armor AFTER flat penetration: 1.28
Infinity Edge: 1.22

Basically people suck at picking items. IE is actually pretty bad, and a Madred's is better in almost every way.

However, Stark's is awesome. Grab a single other physical champion, and you can get a ratio of 1.56, even disregarding the HP regen.

Get 2, the ratio is 2.26.

Yoummu's is a 1.15, but the active bumps it to a 2.07 for those few seconds.

Items that aren't worth the cost:

Frozen Mallet: You pay 1000 gold for that slow. Unless your team has NO CC, not really worth that.
Executioner's Calling: 200 gold for the active. Up to you if that's worth it.
Bloodthirster if you're not gonna farm it up. 0.89 ratio.

ATM, unless I'm playing vs ninja/garen/kat, I grab madred's and a wit's end, or a guinsoos if I have AP ratios. (Corki, Jax, etc.)

vs Ninjas, I get either Guinsoos, or Starks. Last Whisper is my last choice, taken only if I'm against ninjas, have no AP ratios, AND somebody else already bought starks. This...doesn't happen often.
I was writing a post trying to use logic to show you why you are wrong, but I'll go ahead and break out my math again.

Assume 100 base damage, 10% crit rate, .625 base attackspeed, .09% AS gain per level, and the target is 1800/80/60 HP/Ar/MR. Assume no runes or Masteries.

Infinity Edge + Last Whisper = 370 DPS
Madred's BloodRazor + Wit's End = 356 DPS

Items like Madred's and Wit's End are bad because their damage is independent of all effects that deal with your DPS, like Armor Pen, Crit Chance, and Crit Damage, with the sole exception of Attackspeed. Items like Youmu's, IE, and Last Whisper are amazing because of their damage synergy. Every point you get into Damage, Attackspeed, Armor Penetration, Crit Chance, or Crit Damage increases your total damage by a notable margin because they all interlock. The only time I'd even consider Madred's and Wit's End is if I were playing against Mundo/Cho'Gath/Sion stacking only HP and Ar items.


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Sad Faced Panda

Senior Member

05-07-2010

Quote:
I honestly think Armor Penetration is slightly worthless, lets move on.
Kind of like this guide?


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Yellow Jester

Senior Member

05-08-2010

excellent trolling on Shady's part.


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GuyGin

Senior Member

05-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadyTrader View Post
IId. Armor Penetration

Yeah, you like to penetrate don't you? You like to go deep in their armor and penetrate over and over again. What? No i wasn't talking about that! You're disgusting! But seriously, lets do something that is totally unexpected and look at the pros.

Pros:

-Easily wipe out tanks with high damage mitigation
-Umm yeah.

I honestly think Armor Penetration is slightly worthless, lets move on.
This alone shows that you aren't really qualified to give advice on this topic.


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Silverdevilboy

Senior Member

05-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire393 View Post
I was writing a post trying to use logic to show you why you are wrong, but I'll go ahead and break out my math again.

Assume 100 base damage, 10% crit rate, .625 base attackspeed, .09% AS gain per level, and the target is 1800/80/60 HP/Ar/MR. Assume no runes or Masteries.

Infinity Edge + Last Whisper = 370 DPS
Madred's BloodRazor + Wit's End = 356 DPS

Items like Madred's and Wit's End are bad because their damage is independent of all effects that deal with your DPS, like Armor Pen, Crit Chance, and Crit Damage, with the sole exception of Attackspeed. Items like Youmu's, IE, and Last Whisper are amazing because of their damage synergy. Every point you get into Damage, Attackspeed, Armor Penetration, Crit Chance, or Crit Damage increases your total damage by a notable margin because they all interlock. The only time I'd even consider Madred's and Wit's End is if I were playing against Mundo/Cho'Gath/Sion stacking only HP and Ar items.
Mundo...the no-mana character...clever.

And as for the DPS calculation...

Wit's End+Madred's = 244 damage, 1.22625 attacks per second.

DPS, with the stats you posted up, is by my calculation:

87.37+97.42 = 184 DPS with my items, and 191 with yours. Yeah, you've got slightly higher damage. It's basically no difference though, and you have less survivability, whereas my DPS items have gotten me 30 MR and 25 Armor. If two characters with the base stats you posted fought with the builds, mine would win, due to my added armor, and my character can survive more damage, letting him attack for longer.

Plus, ArPen runes actually make last whisper less valuable, because % reduction is applied last of all. Starks or Yoummu's does that better.

If you have abilities that scale off attack damage, IE is better, obviously. That's ability synergy, not the numbers. (Though bloodthirsters are still better if you can get them stacked up)