Is Dominion the reason for the hypercarry nerfs?

First Riot Post
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IrrationalNoob

Senior Member

08-07-2011

Theory- Hypercarries would be really bad/hard to balance on a map where you did not have to lane as much for gold. The characters balanced by a weaker early lane phase and a VERY strong mid-endgame had to get changed in order to be balanced on Dominion.

You remade Kayle, Result- No longer hyper carries, has a slightly better early game and a much worse endgame.

You remade Tryndamere- Result kind of hyper carries but worse then before. The fact that he will have to build up his fury meter will help balance his hypercarryness.


The only hypercarry left in the game is Jax. Weak in lane early, exceptional 1v1er or small skirmish fighter once he has a couple of items. Either he is going to be very strong in this environment or he will be changed. I guess he could be balanced by items....no ninja tabi would really hurt him. I am curious if they exist on the Dominion map. Or dodge at all.

Shut down laners (The opposite of a hypercarry, strong early mid, falls off late,leblanc/rumble) will be weaker on this map although they generally have good mobility so they might do ok.

I am worried that although devs have stated they are not changing the game based on dominion that it actually has been going on for a while now. I am curious if things will change because certain groups of champs are found to be overpowered or not.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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Senior Member

08-07-2011

Dominion was not the reason for any specific champion reworks.

Riot just felt those champions were a problem in some way, shape, or form in Summoner's Rift.



With or without Dominion, Riot feels hypercarries had problems because they weak early games suck and OP late games are OP (duh). The end.


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DankDuke420

Member

08-07-2011

the hell is a hypercarry? do you mean hardcarry? excuse me if I'm wrong, I've never heard the term.


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Brackhar

Features Designer

08-08-2011
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Hypercarries are not fun to fight against, which is why we've been changing them.


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IS13537e7a92416eab299e3

Senior Member

08-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatalystCaesium View Post
the hell is a hypercarry? do you mean hardcarry? excuse me if I'm wrong, I've never heard the term.
Hypercarries are pure late-game nightmares like pre-rework Kayle.
She scaled better than anyone with her passive.


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Speeny

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Senior Member

08-08-2011

Ya how dare they change those champions that by the 40min mark can start soloing the entire team!! I see the changes as something that were necessary well before Dominion.


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Whyumai

Senior Member

08-08-2011

It would be great if certain ranged carries (ashe) were nerfed as well.

She has to be one of the few global abilities left, and, she scales well into late game. Also, perma-slow, has lot of utility (hawkshot, etc), and free gold passive (on hawkshot no less). AoE slow with low mana cost and low cooldown probably helps too. If you want to know why tanky-DpS melee champions have to have so many free stats: look at Ashe.


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IS1f1d52ece4eba8be33817

Senior Member

08-08-2011

Olaf.


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Pefkalos

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Junior Member

08-08-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyumai View Post
It would be great if certain ranged carries (ashe) were nerfed as well.

She has to be one of the few global abilities left, and, she scales well into late game. Also, perma-slow, has lot of utility (hawkshot, etc), and free gold passive (on hawkshot no less). AoE slow with low mana cost and low cooldown probably helps too. If you want to know why tanky-DpS melee champions have to have so many free stats: look at Ashe.
And yet ashe is probably one of the worst early game champs there is, unless you get fed you have to work to get into the hard carry status, she's notoriously squishy (get a thornmail, or someone who can dash/dive right to her and she's gone). And her main use before she's able to carry is just her ult's stun. And that is IF it hits, with Riot increasing the cd on it you don't see as many of them as Ashe would previously fire off, and her limited mana pool means she actually has to be careful about spending mana to harass with her volley, or accidentaly leaving frost shot on...

Imo she's gonna be pretty weak on dominion.


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PenguinPaladin

Senior Member

08-08-2011

Yeah, the hypercarries were just bad design overall. And they have to be way too binary and "feed or get fed, no middle ground" to be balanced. Kayle was, Trynd was (still is a little but not ridiculous).

I still think Olaf and Veigar are too, and they're both being looked at I'm pretty sure. And Katarina to a lesser extent, but still problematic.