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[GUIDE] Teemo - The Undefeatable

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semse

Junior Member

09-10-2009

playing AP teemo is much harder than playing the DPS teemo...if you dont plant the mushrooms perfectly right then you end up with one skill you can use which wont give you an advantage over any player ....the 1400 burst damage is in my opinion completely wrong because you are counting the damage from the mushroom but for 90% of the players, the mushroom is not going to hit the enemy player in the right time, at least not very often so you will have your Q skill which does decent damage but then you remain with your auto attack which is not strong cos you built AP....so putting the mushrooms at the right place is absolutely essential, but even then most of the time its not that much damage because, what other people already said, the damage from the mushroom is not THAt great.....

PS: i know because i tried out both Teemos and DPS Teemo does far more damage and easier kills, while its easier to damage and you can still use the shrooms ....


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Doctor Awesome

Senior Member

09-10-2009

Quote:
Nmaster64:
So I tried out Teemo. Lots of fun. Just have one problem.

Those mushrooms don't do shit! They say 500+ dmg but only seem to hit for 100 or so. I'm confused?


Don't forget that the 'shrooms deal 500 damage over five seconds, so 5 hits of 100 damage each. Sometimes it can be hard to tell, so I don't know if you already knew that.

Also, to further support the OP's math:

If the enemy has 100 Armor, they are taking half damage from physical sources. (Most tough-ish chraracters will get close to this much naturally, so we'll stick with this.)

If you did Wit's-Malady combo, with attack speed 1.0, you would deal

  • 50*6/2=150 damage from base attacks
  • 42*6=252 damage from Wit's, to both HP and Mana
  • 30*6=180 damage from Malady (assuming the debuff was maxed, this would be less if you were just starting to attack)
For a total of 582 damage.

If you were using Infinity Edge, attack speed 1.0, you would deal

  • 130*6/2=390 damage from base attacks.
  • 325*6/2=975 damage if you crit every attack (probability, at 24% crit rate: 0.019%)
  • (325*2+130*4)/2=585 damage if you crit twice (probability, at 24% crit rate: 5.7%)
So you would have to crit twice in the same number of attacks to surpass the damage of the Wit's-Malady combo.

Critical points that must also be considered:

  • If you had other items that greatly increased your crit rate, it would be easier to outpace the W-M damage with IE; however, this would result in a much larger monetary investment.
  • The W-M combo also has some other benefits, including serious mana deprivation (particularly on non-casters), lifesteal (although minimal, since your damage is low) and large benefit in team-fights (since your allies will proc the Malady debuff as well, greatly increasing their damage output as well.)
  • This is only assuming 100 armor--against tanks, it would be fairly common for them to have far more armor than this, making it even more difficult--and thereby expensive--for IE to surpass W-M; in this way, W-M can be seen to be more "universal".
  • This assumes the same attack speed for both, which would clearly not be the case--Wit's and Malady alone account for a whopping 80% increase to attack speed, while IE has zero. I could run the calculations accounting for Teemo's attack speed at a given level... perhaps another time.


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Woozl

Senior Member

09-10-2009

Thanks Doctor Awesome, for more accurately representing the numbers. Also, the reason I call this build the "best" for Teemo is because it is easier to learn and master than AP Teemo, and it seems like it does more in team fights. By end game, the entire game is team fights so this is quite important.


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TheHeretic

Senior Member

09-10-2009

Quote:
MammothWaffle:
Are you... are you serious?

Teemo is a wonderful DPS and AP only hurts early to mid game and dwindles out late game due to the fact mushrooms are easily dispatched which leaves you with your only true damage which is your Q and your poison which doesn't tick much.

Having Teemo as a DPS is not only more efficient but helps the team out more in team fights.


Yeah, there's a lot of fail in this post. Mushrooms are easily dispatched isn't even a coherent argument, mushrooms can be planted map wide and dropping one in a team battle is devastating. The enemy team has a second to see it and destroy it before it goes off and deals 1000 damage to the entire team.

An AP build has better burst damage than a DPS build. Blinding Dart + Lich's Bane does insane damage, after that you indeed are left up to your abilities as opposed to your DPS. With 400 AP you are looking at .14x400 damage per tick, which is 56 damage plus 35 base over five seconds. If you tag four enemy heroes you are doing 1820 damage over 5 seconds. Drop a mushroom and tag another four heroes and you are doing 4000 damage to the enemy team. Add in your ability to blind the enemy carry and your natural movement speed to chase behind laggers and you have incredible versatility.

A DPS build is for solo killing, the AP build is for actually playing the game. No amount of DPS can make up for how insane Teemo's output can be spread over multiple heroes: which is the point of the character.


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Oddiz

Senior Member

09-11-2009

Quote:
semse:
the 1400 burst damage is in my opinion completely wrong because you are counting the damage from the mushroom but for 90% of the players, the mushroom is not going to hit the enemy player in the right time, at least not very often so you will have your Q skill which does decent damage but then you remain with your auto attack which is not strong cos you built AP....so putting the mushrooms at the right place is absolutely essential, but even then most of the time its not that much damage because, what other people already said, the damage from the mushroom is not THAt great......


Let me give you the math breakdown, all before counting resistance reduction.

By late game, AP Teemo, I have at LEAST 500 AP, often upwards up 600. But let's just say 500.

Blinding Dart does 300+500.

My next attack does 100 base + 500 from lich's bane ability.

The toxic shot does 100 dps over 5 seconds, so that is 500 damage.

If you hit a mushroom, that is another 1000 damage.

So my total instant burst in less than a second is 1400.

1900 over 5 seconds if you count toxic.

And if they hit a mushroom, it is a total of 2900 over 5 seconds.


Teemo will mess you up.


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Arai Kitsune

Senior Member

09-11-2009

I recently picked up Teemo, and I have to honestly ask. Where is the logic in a physical build Teemo? None of his skills benefit that at all. I mean, Oddiz gave some pretty solid numbers right there, and in game, I often see physical Teemo's, most of the time, my Teemo wins. Why? Probably mostly because of blinding dart, it hurts him more than me, but also because Teemo is squishy, and the burst damage that you get on AP > The single target damage you get on physical. If you want a physical damage ranged attacker, Tristana or Ashe are far better suited.

It'd be like choosing to go for a spell power Rammus simply because his skills have some capacity to grow from AP, it doesn't make much sense to do so, it isn't his role. Sure, you could do it, but you'd be missing out on what he's made to do.

The only trick, I find, is not getting focus fired late game when your enemies realise just how much damage you deal. Most of the time, I can be behind four allied champions at full health after hitting their carry with a blinding dart and regular shot for high damage, and they will go out of their way to run past my allies, past towers, right at me. Which sucks, when Flash is on CD.


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Daikaze

Senior Member

09-11-2009

AP Teemo just has too many flaws as I see it. Mushrooms are easily counterable by sight wards, elixirs, and cleanse. AP Teemo also has to deal with cooldown time, which results in minimal amounts of damage during that time frame, and AP Teemo isn't useful when it comes to towers.

Physical damage Teemo should have lifesteal. Nashor's Tooth, Malady, and Wit's End are fantastic items for a DPS Teemo, and it provides some AP to boot. Sure, his abilities don't have much synergy with his abilities, but a boosted attack speed allows you to attack multiple targets with ease which helps greatly when dealing with minions.

I'm not really saying that AP Teemo isn't viable, but I've always had better results with a physical damage Teemo.


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FuzzeWuzze

Recruiter

09-11-2009

Both are viable, as someone who never played Teemo i started with this guide...won with the highest K/D/A records ive ever had. Then i tried an AP Teemo with max mana regen runes, and that too worked very well with slightly higher K/D/A's..

Its all really a matter of how you want to play Teemo, and to some extent what teamates you have. For me personally i find the AP Teemo easier to play. A majority of my damage comes from Blinding Dart, i can run in shoot it and run out...rinse and repeat a few times an most heroes are dead, running, or blowing their heal summoner.

With the right mix of Mana regen and Cooldown reduction AP teemo is pretty beast. The biggest issue i had with DPS Teemo is people realized i was a threat and would gang up on me and kill me before i could do anything..because i gotta stand there to do my DPS all it takes is 1 stun hero and im SOL. All it takes is one moderately skilled Blitzcrank to ruin a DPS Teemo's life...


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09-12-2009

never underestimate the power of the scouts code.


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Teemohoh

Senior Member

09-12-2009

I approve this guide.