Gragas Discussion!

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Animal Mother

Member

05-02-2010

Well, since this week is free Gragas week, I suppose I'm not the only one who tried him again to see if his recent buffs were satisfactory. So far I'm impressed! He's really a capable champion. His only downside is that he's never sober enough to remember the killing sprees he went on. Add to that his presence in the Razer TT tournament, and it seems like everyone's favorite mutant drunkard is making a comeback on the scene. He's still underrated by many people, but that's probably a good thing.

So, what are your thoughts on him? Were high ELO players using him to try something unorthodox, or is he really a reliable pick? Does he fare as well on SR as on TT?

Most importantly, however, how do you itemize for him? On SR, I've been going AP, using RoA, boots (sorcerers or mercury, mostly) and Mejai as my core. After that, I always end up confused and try a bunch of different things. I tried Nashor's tooth, Guinsoo's rageblade, haunting guise.. Deathfire grasp could be interesting too, but I have yet to try that out.

On TT, I'd stack Doran's rings, and improvise on my last slot. 4x Doran, boots and Rageblade actually turned out decent. Still, all of my builds were tentative and poorly researched on the whole. Has anyone experimented a lot with him?

Also, I realise that I have completely left out tank or AD Gragas out. I might give it a try eventually, but tank Gragas makes as little sense to me as tank Blitzcrank does, since his initiation ability has a long range. AD, or even full hybrid Gragas, makes more sense, and I've seen other people advocating it on the forums, but it seems problematic.

With his limited steroid skills, Gragas is not much of a dps machine, and committing to a melee fight has never served me well with him so far in team fights. I have no doubt that a melee-centric Gragas could be scary in 1vs1, with his mobility and what not, but it seems to me like any competent team would have no difficulty countering him in a large battle. On the other hand, AP Gragas gives more juice to his main asset in a team fight, aka his ulti. It also gives him a very potent long-range large-radius nuke.

Now, feel free to prove me wrong. To me, AD Gragas vs AP Gragas is kind of like AD Kass vs AP Kass, or AD Sion vs AP Sion, two cases in which most people agree that AP is superior, but that's just my impression. I'm posting this thread exactly because my knowledge of Gragas is limited so far, and need other people's thoughts to complement my own.

Final thoughts: Skill progression, runes and summoner spells to go with him? MR pen makes the most sense, but body slam deals physical damage, which got me thinking that armor pen marks could work. Afterall, starting armor is lower than MR, armor pen marks lower armor by 17-19ish (as opposed to 9 for MR pen), and body slam is monstrous early game.

For summoner spells, I've been trying exhaust/ignite and exhaust/teleport. Exhaust/Ignite pretty much makes you an early game monster, as rank 1 body slam simply does everything (chase, escape, slow, huge 1vs1 damage at lvl 1, low cooldown, low cost), which is great for the first fight over lizard in TT. The mobility spells, like cleanse, ghost and flash, make sense, but suit more an AD build than the safer AP build. Has anyone tried initiating with flash? Flash+body slam+Explosive cask could be a wicked move to screw the other team's positioning.

For skill progression, body slam at lvl 1 seems like a must, as it has better damage than barrel roll at rank 1 against a single target, and it gives you a powerful chase/slow mechanism. You could make a case for barrel roll if you need to hit 2 or more people in an early fight, but that's unlikely to happen anyway. After that, I'd pick barrel roll at lvl 2 and 3, for the harassing power and the superior scaling dmg. Drunken rage at 4, because rank 1 gives you good benefits, and rank 2 body slam isn't that good. After that, I max barrel roll and pick ulti ASAP, but I have no idea which skill I should max second. I kind of lean toward drunken rage, because it increases body slam's dmg almost as much as leveling body slam itself, but the truth is that neither skill scales THAT well.

Anyway, any feedback/discussion about this drunken behemoth would be appreciated!


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Yellow Jester

Senior Member

05-02-2010

Gragas is awesome.

EDIT: Also AD is superior to AP because Body Slam is twice as spammable as barrel roll, easier to hit with, and you can put out sustained Deeps better. Sure an 800 damage barrel is nice, but it's hard to hit with and you have to farm a lot for that. And what do you do while it's cooling down? Just die, apparently.

I would rather charge in angry and drunk. hybrid build is definitely something to look at, but I would just slap a Rod of Ages and maybe a Rageblade onto a DPS build and call it a day.


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FountainSquatter

Senior Member

05-02-2010

barrel roll is amazing for early-mid game, but its effectiveness goes down as the game goes on. you'll realize soon that with his self-buff, your pushing out a lot of damage without needing to stack bf swords. war mogs i find is a gamebreaker for him, if u can get it relatively early. an aegis before that isnt a bad choice either.


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AnalC

Senior Member

05-02-2010

Gragas is a beast. He is bad only in low elo games. Not because of him, but because of summoner(s). There's no bad champ, only bad players.


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Animal Mother

Member

05-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Jester View Post
Gragas is awesome.

EDIT: Also AD is superior to AP because Body Slam is twice as spammable as barrel roll, easier to hit with, and you can put out sustained Deeps better. Sure an 800 damage barrel is nice, but it's hard to hit with and you have to farm a lot for that. And what do you do while it's cooling down? Just die, apparently.

I would rather charge in angry and drunk. hybrid build is definitely something to look at, but I would just slap a Rod of Ages and maybe a Rageblade onto a DPS build and call it a day.
I definitively need to try going AD with him, or at least going hybrid. However, I do feel the need to point out that barrel roll's cooldown is, I believe, one or two seconds longer than body slam's, so that you realistically can accompany each of your body slam (and the slow it provides) with a point blank barrel, particularly with some CD reduction (and golem is easy to kill with Grag).

I do agree that, late game, his AP scalings are not the most impressive. In that case, going for a few early AP items to carry you through most of the game, then picking up physical-based items if it drags on, sounds like a reasonable thing to do. The alternative would be increasing your AP benefits, by going Lichbane and/or Deathfire grasp.


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CaptnCrunk

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Junior Member

05-02-2010

Gragas is definitely in my top 3 fave heroes
I go with a tank/AD build
I haven't gone AP with gragas since he was free bout a month ago, but I prefer AD > AP build. The results are devastating. Body slam does so much damage and gives mobility


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0lKiddol0

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Member

05-02-2010

I think Randuin's Omen, the latest item to hit LoL, would be awesome for late game Gragas because it gives you the bonus +300 health/+90 armor to get close, a 15% cd, and the ability to slow. Although, with Gragas' passive the health regen may not be necessary.


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SoopaTomato

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Recruiter

05-02-2010

i'm having so much fun with gragas this week

got two doublekills in the same game earlier today

i play ad gragas


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Animal Mother

Member

05-02-2010

Hmm, numerically-wise, the scaling on body slam is not impressive. A BF sword gives you about 33 more damage on your body slam, assuming you hit only one person. If you hit many people, the scaling is downright terrible. Meanwhile, the +40 AP item gives you 36 dmg on your barrel, costs half as much, you're not penalized for hitting many opponents, and it also improves your ulti with +40 dmg. Sure, body slam has a lower cooldown, but it's not enough to compensate. AD for auto-attacking? Sure, but not for burst damage.


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AnalC

Senior Member

05-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Hmm, numerically-wise, the scaling on body slam is not impressive. A BF sword gives you about 33 more damage on your body slam, assuming you hit only one person. If you hit many people, the scaling is downright terrible. Meanwhile, the +40 AP item gives you 36 dmg on your barrel, costs half as much, you're not penalized for hitting many opponents, and it also improves your ulti with +40 dmg. Sure, body slam has a lower cooldown, but it's not enough to compensate. AD for auto-attacking? Sure, but not for burst damage.

Thing u forget is how expensive it is to cast barrel rolls. U need both high mana regeneration and high AP to make the grog kick.

Body slam is a skillshot. U need to place your self so that you wont hit but your target, and problem solved.


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