Twisted fate

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

kavinh the third

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-30-2011

i've heard ppl are taking nocturne over him since his fear's more reliable then picking cards and he's got 500 more range on his ult.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EnderDDT

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-31-2011

Nocturne's ult doesn't have more range but it deals a lot of damage upon arrival (with a scaling of 1.2 bonus AD on top of the flat base) and will quickly get you next to the enemy if not right on top of them without any warning beyond the activation of the ult. In contrast TF's skill deals no damage, is has an obvious animation showing that he is appearing (that is too large to be hidden by most brush), and has enough build in delay for most characters to simply run away from an attempted gank. Secondarily, while TF's ulti reveals all enemy heroes, Nocturne's blacks out the entire map including all wards, allies, minions, towers, clarvoyances and everything else not immediately beside you. So the secondary aspect is probably equil if you use both right and you have a team that is warding like they should anyway, or even superior since it can easily destroy team composition in a fight and prevent teamwork (say, for going after the squishys or supports in the back, for instance). The extra range in the teleport (the previous global range) made up for the fact that the target was obvious and the arrival was slow, and the utilitarian benefit of having it target a location rather than an enemy helped even out the lack of damage. So all in all, the two ultimates were probably equil before the change.

But comparing his other spells makes him equil or superior in most every other way, and that is before I get into stats.

Nocturne's passive allows him to regain enough health to jungle fairly safely (some have compared him to WW in this way) and can easily help keep him alive in a team fight or allow him to recover his health after one by killing minions and monsters. TF's passive gives +2 gold per minion kill to all team members, adding up to +100 gold per 50 minions. But Nocturne's passive also deals splash damage to everyone around the target for 120% of his attack damage every few hits. The winner is clear.

Nocturne's fear is far more reliable than TF's stun (even discounting how buggy PaC is) has more range, does more damage, and can be used for zoning. It requires 2 seconds before activation for the fear to take effect but still does the damage and only avoids the stun if the opponent successfully runs, unlike PaC, but counting in the time needed to choose the card makes the total wait time the same between uses (averaging 1-3 seconds to choose depending on when your card comes up) and that is before the extra wait time for activation that PaC has between choosing it and throwing it.

Nocturne's Duskbringer is a wide hitbox, good speed, good range skill shot that not only does damage that is based off his main stat (AD), but also gives bonuses to move speed and attack speed. It can also double as an escape mechanism. Twisted fate's Wild Cards has much longer range and higher base stats, but is a fairly small hit box and is quite slow and is AP (while his other skills strengthen better with AD) and has worse scaling at that.

Nocturne's Shroud of Darkness does not give cooldown or the extra damage of about 40+ .1ap magic damage when averaged per individual attack hit, but gives far and away more attack speed base. At max level the difference is +15 and +40, and that is before the improvements that Nocturne's move can give. Nocturne's move also gives a spell nulifying shield that, when popped, doubles this AS increase up to +80. This bonus attack speed, combined with the high damage that Nocture should easily have, far outweighs the small magic damage that TF gets, and the single type damage allows him to build pen much more effectively, should he decide to do so.

And as if that weren't enough, you should look at the stat differences between them. Nocturne has stats that seem to be a mix of usually the worse between Master Yi and Tryndomire (neither of which are that bad), TF's stats are actually closer to Karthis in terms of defense and pantheon in terms of attack (higher base attack speed, but much lower movement speed). No joking here, kids, TF's stats are actually that bad.

So yeah, I can understand why people would switch to Nocture now that the one thing that made TF playable is now gone.

PS: look up my numbers if you don't believe me, things really are just that bad.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Direthought

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-31-2011

^^^^^

Solid job.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Crissan

Senior Member

07-31-2011

Quote:
translation: useless
You still dont get it? I guess you are kinda slow kid, let me explain again maybe this time you will get it.
Useless means hes worthless, like say Eve, Twitch, Sivir, etc. But guess what, he isnt, he got crippled by the nerf so now he is not AS USEFUL as he was before but its still a decent champion but not godly like say Annie, Xin, Malzahar, etc. Got it now kid?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Direthought

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-31-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crissan View Post
You still dont get it? I guess you are kinda slow kid, let me explain again maybe this time you will get it.
Useless means hes worthless, like say Eve, Twitch, Sivir, etc. But guess what, he isnt, he got crippled by the nerf so now he is not AS USEFUL as he was before but its still a decent champion but not godly like say Annie, Xin, Malzahar, etc. Got it now kid?
He is no longer an assassin. Got it? His damage output is subpar without decent itemization. You get gold from kills. Ganks give you kills. Get it?
Oh yeah, or you could farm your lane.... As long as someone with a longer range or a better harass was not your opposite. Or you could be in bottom lane with the support but then you are brought down to a sad late game where all you do is try to land that gold card.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DairyIntolerant

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-31-2011

Twisted Fate is far from useless. If using his ult in the conventional manner (for ganking top and bottom lanes as you should definitely solo mid with TF), then he can simply walk within range then use the ult. In my opinion, this nerf was called for a long time ago, reducing the easiness to backdoor and increasing the time he takes to get back to his team if they are initiated upon.
His skillset is still the same and my playstyle (AP) is largely unaffected.


12