Katarina and CC

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isPocky

Junior Member

07-29-2011

Was hoping Riot might consider giving Kat either CC or some CC protection, or change what CC cancels her ult. The bottom line is she's useless in team fights in any serious level of gaming, but allow me to make a more comprehensive case for those that aren't already familiar with Katarina.

I believe she's the only AP carry (and only a handful of AD carries) that has no CC and no CC protection, meaning

1. She is entirely skill based, her normal attacks are effectively useless, even if you build her AD she's not made to use normal attacks.
2. Being an AP carry, she has low health, res and armor and you won't have enough money to maintain carry damage and keep yourself alive unless you're fed
3. She can't prevent, reduce, or clear stuns, knockups, pushes, pulls, taunts, fears or silence
4. She can't cause any of the above-mentioned ailments
5. All of these ailments will cancel Kat's ult immediately

Now the issue isn't really that Kat doesn't have CC, I mention it because I find it strange that she can't prevent OR cause CC, which almost all carries can.

As anyone who has played Kat knows, CCs are especially bad for her because over half the champions available now (?) can cancel her ult almost immediately, and she needs to be in the middle of the fighting to be most effective. It usually takes a shunpo to get good ult position, leaving her most likely stunned with no exit strategy, and she goes down fast.

Now if you've been burned by Kat I can understand why you think this might be unnecessary. She's one of the best laners in the game, she has a built in flash, her skills cost nothing, and her dagger is probably the best harassing skill in the game. But once you get into the team fighting phase with Kat you have to hope enemy players blow their CC early, aren't paying attention or lose sight of you in the fight. Otherwise you get shut down hard.

So maybe knocking her up in the air or pulling around doesn't cancel her ult, that would help. Another route to take would be adding some CC protection to Killer Instincts. Maybe she can't be knocked around while Killer Instincts > Shunpo is active. Or something could be added to her passive so when it triggers off a kill or assist she's also immune to CC for a few seconds (That could make some disgusting chains so maybe not).

Thoughts?


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hawk79

Senior Member

07-29-2011

banishes veil..... /thread


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Dragull

Senior Member

07-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk79 View Post
banishes veil..... /thread
Yeah now she is best champion ever. No need to play any other champion for my entire life. All the pro team are going to ban Katarina every single game now that this item was discovered.


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Somepants

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Senior Member

07-29-2011

I see her as an easy win counter-pick when the other team derps and doesn't have enough cc. or has swain and vlad. otherwise, yeah, picking her is extremely risky. and I don't really like niche champs myself.

without some serious alterations to her damage output, any flat-out cc protection would completely break her though.


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angrymexican

Senior Member

07-29-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by isPocky View Post
Was hoping Riot might consider giving Kat either CC or some CC protection, or change what CC cancels her ult. The bottom line is she's useless in team fights in any serious level of gaming, but allow me to make a more comprehensive case for those that aren't already familiar with Katarina.

I believe she's the only AP carry (and only a handful of AD carries) that has no CC and no CC protection, meaning

1. She is entirely skill based, her normal attacks are effectively useless, even if you build her AD she's not made to use normal attacks.
2. Being an AP carry, she has low health, res and armor and you won't have enough money to maintain carry damage and keep yourself alive unless you're fed
3. She can't prevent, reduce, or clear stuns, knockups, pushes, pulls, taunts, fears or silence
4. She can't cause any of the above-mentioned ailments
5. All of these ailments will cancel Kat's ult immediately

Now the issue isn't really that Kat doesn't have CC, I mention it because I find it strange that she can't prevent OR cause CC, which almost all carries can.

As anyone who has played Kat knows, CCs are especially bad for her because over half the champions available now (?) can cancel her ult almost immediately, and she needs to be in the middle of the fighting to be most effective. It usually takes a shunpo to get good ult position, leaving her most likely stunned with no exit strategy, and she goes down fast.

Now if you've been burned by Kat I can understand why you think this might be unnecessary. She's one of the best laners in the game, she has a built in flash, her skills cost nothing, and her dagger is probably the best harassing skill in the game. But once you get into the team fighting phase with Kat you have to hope enemy players blow their CC early, aren't paying attention or lose sight of you in the fight. Otherwise you get shut down hard.

So maybe knocking her up in the air or pulling around doesn't cancel her ult, that would help. Another route to take would be adding some CC protection to Killer Instincts. Maybe she can't be knocked around while Killer Instincts > Shunpo is active. Or something could be added to her passive so when it triggers off a kill or assist she's also immune to CC for a few seconds (That could make some disgusting chains so maybe not).

Thoughts?
uuuh stay behind the tank... stay back and wait for them to waste there cc on the tank then when its all gone come behind them and shunpo onto tat squishy and go waanananananananaananananananaanananaananan killing half the team or getting half to 20% or pentakeel et simple just stay behind teamtes and wait for the right moment to ult


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isPocky

Junior Member

08-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk79 View Post
banishes veil..... /thread
Banshee's veil does offer her a little protection, though the cooldown was extended recently; 45 seconds compared to the cooldowns of most stuns isn't much protection. A well placed skillshot or other long distance skill at the right time would take that veil off before a team fight happens. Most people are used to veils enough now that they take the veil off carries with less useful (often spammable) skills when the opportunity presents itself.

As an item, the veil also isn't a very good investment for Kat. She gets health and magic res but she's paying for mana she doesn't need, and it's an expensive investment when she should be getting AP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angrymexican View Post
uuuh stay behind the tank... stay back and wait for them to waste there cc on the tank then when its all gone come behind them and shunpo onto tat squishy and go waanananananananaananananananaanananaananan killing half the team or getting half to 20% or pentakeel et simple just stay behind teamtes and wait for the right moment to ult
This would work for teams that are already in trouble before you enter the fight and need to CC the tank to prevent taking significant damage, otherwise they wouldn't waste their CC on tanks and support. If you're on a well balanced team as Kat the other team will be saving their CC skills for you since you're AP carry.

Cleanse is also useless since the ult is cancelled immediately and the cooldown reset. She would be out of a stun but the effect of the CC is accomplished anyway.


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Carados

Senior Member

08-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by isPocky View Post
As an item, the veil also isn't a very good investment for Kat. She gets health and magic res but she's paying for mana she doesn't need,
You're bad at the game if you refuse to buy Banshee's Veils on manaless champions. It's still one of Kat's best items and one of the strongest items in the game even if you don't need the mana.

And yes, survability is damage, welcome to time.


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Servantofthe99

Senior Member

08-01-2011

i think most of the channeled spells are high damage to compensate for their susceptibility to cc (absolute zero, nether grasp, death lotus, etc) and since she doesn't have mana she can itemize with rylais very well without the worry for mana issues. as with most other channeled ultis i think its good to have a team mate with abilities to cc the other team otherwise it is unlikely to be as effective. i've had good luck with amumu and kat, so i assume galio and kat would work well too. also morgana...have her pop that black shield and there you go.


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Eyeball27

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Member

08-01-2011

I just think she needs a rework of her skills; make her less dependent on her ulti for damage, and ensure that CC dosen't shut her down completely.


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Man of God2

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Senior Member

08-01-2011

My idea is make her have a like 2 second spell shield when she uses W+R meaning you shunpo in and quickly W+R to get the spell shield. it's just an idea, it could make her OP though.

Note: the spell shield would only activate when used with R, not any other spell.


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