[GAMEPLAY] Minions Game Balance

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roliax

Junior Member

09-06-2009

Since there is no general gameplay feedback, I'm posting this here because it's the closest topic to what I'm going to say. I have two things about minions that I think greatly affects teh way the game is played.

1) Minions are TOO WEAK.

Even from the beggining, it is so easy for heroes to walk past minions and start attacking enemy heroes. By mid level, most heroes can tank several waves of minions and farm.

I haven't paid too much attention to the minion AI, but I assume they auto focus on the on a target that is attacking a hero. Even with this AI, they enemy hero don't seem to get hurt. In DOTA, you can't really fight creeps until much later in the game.

I know this isn't DOTA, but by having weak minions, the early game is too reckless. The early game shouldn't be disregarded because that's where a lot of the micormanaging can take place: last hitting, harassing without being hit and lane controlling.

By having minions that barely hurt (they do 5-8 damage per hit if you have the right stuff), and die so easily, the early game goes by fast with too many hero deaths. To me, this sort of feels like EM in DOTA where no one last hits or lane controls and just rushes for kills and try to get the baddest item.

In LoL, an Evelynn stealthed behind an enemy would come out of stealth to try and kill the hero even if he is behind the entire wave of minions. That would NOT happen in DOTA because the creeps will rape you.

2) There are too many ranged minions.
In the early game, 3 ranged minions spawn with every wave. What naturally happens with no interference is the melee creeps will die off and eventually one side will build up a huge aremy of ranged minions.

Now factor in the players. What will happen is the melee creeps die off and what you get is two rows of ranegd minions just blasting at each other. It is then diffcult for both sides to go in for last hits because in order to do so, they must cross the no man's land in the middle which is dangerous. Of course different heroes will deal with this situation differently. But this is the general outcome.

Imagine all four heroes in that lane are melee. They won't move into the cross fire to last hit because the enemy heroes are standing right next to their ranged minion. This really hurts the early game.

Conclusion

Minions are too weak and take away the early game. They need a little more buff especially in the mid game where there's a lot of ganks.

Reduce the number of ranged creeps in the initial spawns. They create useless standoffs.

These suggestions benefit having REAL skills and knowing how to play the game - NOT just getting buff with items. Hopefully you guys agree.


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Thadious

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Senior Member

09-06-2009

I think that you contradict yourself, saying that the minions don't do enough damage and can't hurt you, but then your argument about ranged creeps is flawed. \

"It is then diffcult for both sides to go in for last hits because in order to do so, they must cross the no man's land in the middle which is dangerous."

So by this you mean that the hero won't go in for a last hit because they will take too much damage?


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SidAres

Member

09-06-2009

that part about ruining early game by making it aggressive, i cannot agree with.
its definitely more fun and rewarding to kill early game than to run around last hitting creeps controlled by the computer. so the weak creeps early game encourages the champs to be aggressive, which is also the reason (probably) why the skills in LoL are quite spammable early game in a sense that you can cast your skills more often before you go oom. and they also are abit weaker, which should probably encourage teamwork..so that you dont have solo champs killing effortlessly on even ground. (without items).

i kinda see your point with the range creeps but i guess that just to speed up games and to discourage leaving lanes. so players would have to balance ganking and protecting the towers.

and for the record, the supercreeps end-game are hella strong. :P

though they could probably make champ kills not so rewarding early game so that getting killed early doesn't make such a big gap in strength, like it does in dota. (killer gains 200 gold, you lose 500) or something like that.

and maybe it shouldn't be so rewarding to kill a champ underleveled, AND/OR a champ with many deaths. and make it more rewarding to kill a champion 'stronger' than you. lol but that would probably make the game longer, but maybe a bit more balanced and intense :P its not fun when one team is heavyly owning the other.


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roliax

Junior Member

09-06-2009

"It is then diffcult for both sides to go in for last hits because in order to do so, they must cross the no man's land in the middle which is dangerous."

What I mean is, if you cross the area and go last hit the ranged minion, you'll be putting yourself closer to the enemy hero where they can attack you. If they attack you, they are too far to aggro your minions. But if you attack them, you will auto aggro their minions. You will not aggro minions just by attacking minions so no I am not contradicting myself.


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AngryBovine

Member

09-06-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by roliax View Post
What I mean is, if you cross the area and go last hit the ranged minion, you'll be putting yourself closer to the enemy hero where they can attack you. If they attack you, they are too far to aggro your minions. But if you attack them, you will auto aggro their minions. You will not aggro minions just by attacking minions so no I am not contradicting myself.
Didn't you say that minions did insignificant damage though?


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roliax

Junior Member

09-06-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidAres View Post
that part about ruining early game by making it aggressive, i cannot agree with.
its definitely more fun and rewarding to kill early game than to run around last hitting creeps controlled by the computer.
Anyways, I did take into consideration the reasons why they made the minionsso weak and came across the same reasons that you mentioned. However, the minionsare so weak they are literally transparent. A hero standing with a group of minionsis just as dead as a hero standing with no minions.

I think the minions could get a little boost and still preserve the past-paced, aggressive game style.


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roliax

Junior Member

09-06-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryBovine View Post
Didn't you say that minions did insignificant damage though?
I did. What I am saying iis that if you go over the other side, you'll get wooped by the other hero NOT their creeps.


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MrIDDQD

Junior Member

09-06-2009

I have noticed the minions being pretty week at mid game


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SidAres

Member

09-06-2009

lol, okok.
a good +2 dmg to minions should be good.


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Rossbot

Junior Member

09-06-2009

Do the minion's stats scale during the game?


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