@ RIOT DEV TEAM (champion rework team) - An idea for Tryndamere's Bloodlust ability

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Ploomstar

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Member

07-29-2011

His play style has changed a lot. Longer CD on bloodlust, less heal and less low level crits. His E, however, got a nice buff, so you can actually use it to do some damage, instead of chasing/escaping like before.

At full fury though his crits are massive. This change just effected his early-game I think. Late game and full build you can still easily pull out 1.2k crits and destroy everything.


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D1rtySanchezZ

Senior Member

07-29-2011

Tl:dr
Basicaly the changes to trynd were a buff on his early game.coz u can have pritty much 65% crit rate at lvl 1 it also means that he dosnt have to build a 3rd crit item (this is if u have a full crit rate rune page. Ie 20% crit from runes). Coz i used to build 2 PD's and an IE. So now. I am free to get some other item such as starks frozen malet or last whisper.
SO he is probably on the op side atm. The old trynd was fine.
Kinda makes me wonder y they changed him.


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Bees

Senior Member

07-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebehir View Post
I don't have hard stats, I am just referring to something I read from a riot post some time ago, and the public perception of him.
Perception that he is OP is just as important as whether he really is, I think.

Do your stats show something specific:
When Tryndamere wins in low ELO, how much of a k/d discrepancy is there between Tryn and his team, and Tryn and the enemy team?
Because when he shines in low ELO he completely outshines.

I think this was the problem that has been indicated. It's a reference that his game is "Binary", his value is either 0, ie, he is shut down absolutely
or his value is 1. He is the everything, and nobody can do anything against him.

I've played games where this is true (both cases) so I do agree, the old Tryndamere is binary.
But he was fun, even to lose with.
Well I'd disagree that perception of OPness is as important as reality. I think it's always just better to inform the public of reality /w strong evidence (like hard stats). Maybe people just remember that string of crits that killed them quickly rather than the times tryn didn't get stacks and they outdamaged him. Maybe they remember the long games where he felt scary and forget the short games they dominated quickly and won. As long as the trade off for actually playing trynd is equal it's fine, otherwise people will just stop playing him. That trade off was equal before (as far as stats show me) maybe it still will be.

You were looking for a specific stat. What you're describing isn't published on the site I showed you (http://www.riotstats.com/versions/1-36-18) but it could be shown by adding a number for K/D variability. They would also need to have an option to separate normal games and ranked, high elo and low. You can contact them and suggest adding this kind of info, but I don't think most people will quickly understand a new variability stat whether it's variance, standard deviation, or interquartile range. Another option for you would be to just click on the matches tab on that site. You can look at thousands of individual games, just check out the ranked ones and see the elo and kill counts yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploomstar View Post
His play style has changed a lot. Longer CD on bloodlust, less heal and less low level crits. His E, however, got a nice buff, so you can actually use it to do some damage, instead of chasing/escaping like before.

At full fury though his crits are massive. This change just effected his early-game I think. Late game and full build you can still easily pull out 1.2k crits and destroy everything.
I'm a little confused about your opinion about tryn's changes, namely his E.
As Z3rg3m3n stated: They "Nerfed spinning slash damage early game by changing it to physical damage from magic damage AND Nerfing its base damage except from level 1 spin. AND it now scales from BONUS AD instead of TOTAL AD. (requires around 250 AD from items to match old spin)" http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...569&highlight=
That and at full fury his crits are the same as 0 fury, but they are 35% more likely (before at full bloodlust he had extra AD and extra crit damage) and before he also had a base +10% crit chance that increased to 50% as you reached 1 health, now he adds 5-20/10-30/15-40/20-50/25-60 Attack Damage depending on how wounded Tryndamere is.

So your first sentence sounds like the new trynd "His play style has changed a lot. Longer CD on bloodlust, less heal and less low level crits." but the rest sounds like the old trynd that doesn't exist anymore.


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Mitey Oosik

Senior Member

07-30-2011

he's more op now then before.....2 penta's in one game.....yea need a fix!


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Asphyxiophiliac

Junior Member

07-30-2011

IMO bloodlust needs to have cirt% dmg not much but its what made trynda trynda. keep it the same consume bloodlust for hp loose crit dmg. Make his heal a bit better it is kinda horrible atm. and add bonuses to mocking shout and spin for furry...

My ideas
bloodlust
50+furry bonus health from consuming as well cirt% per furry making it usefull to heal again and caustly
moking shout
15% slow 30% with 50+ furry
Spin bonus dmg with 50+furry scale with spell lvl

with that i think he woudl be liek his olds self again instead of what he is now as well as incourperate teh system better. make the numbers small to ballance him out but it would synergize better

as always sorry for the bad grammar and terr a bad spelling


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Bluebehir

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Senior Member

07-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by D1rtySanchezZ View Post
Tl:dr
Basicaly the changes to trynd were a buff on his early game.coz u can have pritty much 65% crit rate at lvl 1 it also means that he dosnt have to build a 3rd crit item (this is if u have a full crit rate rune page. Ie 20% crit from runes). Coz i used to build 2 PD's and an IE. So now. I am free to get some other item such as starks frozen malet or last whisper.
SO he is probably on the op side atm. The old trynd was fine.
Kinda makes me wonder y they changed him.
Thanks for giving feedback if you weren't bothered reading it in the first place. My thread isn't the usual rant rant he's nerfed.

If he's so buffed early game, why do I have worse laning experience than I used to?
You want to show how I get "pretty much" 65% crit rate at level 1?
35% from fury, which in MY experience I achieve JUST as I hit level 2. I need to have brawler's gloves. I get 2% from masteries. So I have to get 30% from runes? Such a waste.
But even if I HAVE 65% crit rate, which- according to your rune page value - can't happen, how does that improve him? Your level 1 damage is very ordinary. Your attack rate is very ordinary. Sure, you get 2 crits every 3 hits, but enemies don't hang around that long, and they harass you before and after you try. You lose.
As for your end game, your 2 PD + IE was a sub-optimal build in the first place. No wonder you've improved, you've taken away a huge mistake (high cost diminishing returns on attack speed, move speed and critical strike chance!), and found something better to spend your money on. Soon you'll learn that the crit rune page is wasteful as well. I can see how this change was good for you.
Everything *I* do, however, nets less damage output than before AND less survivability.


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iAteMyVegetables

Senior Member

07-30-2011

Omg you guys suck. If you're losing matches with Tryndamere or you don't have 10+ kills anymore every match then you suck, 'cause it's still one of the most op champion in this entire game. What kind of bs is it that the lower his hp gets the stronger he becomes? He kills two champions end game just on his ult lol. And I've seen Tryndamere's with life steal items. They regen their hp so fast it's not normal. I hope riot isn't taking you newbs serious. Tryndamere needs a nerf. He's not suppose to hit that high while having the most op ult in the game. And a heal skill on a auto attacker? Dumb stuff. Just delete the champ so no more complaints.


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Bluebehir

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Senior Member

07-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploomstar View Post
His play style has changed a lot. Longer CD on bloodlust, less heal and less low level crits. His E, however, got a nice buff, so you can actually use it to do some damage, instead of chasing/escaping like before.

At full fury though his crits are massive. This change just effected his early-game I think. Late game and full build you can still easily pull out 1.2k crits and destroy everything.
This thread isn't trying to talk about his battle fury, his mocking shout, his spinning slash or his undying rage. I don't think that these (as implemented) break the way Tryndamere plays. However, I'll share some thoughts on Spinning Slash.
It's a rework of the skill. It has some nerfs and it has some buffs. You should use it a little differently, but you do keep the functionality you previously had.

EG. Damage is converted to AD. Regarding versatility, this is a nerf. However, if you focus armour penetration, this is a buff.
Damage values are a nerf. I understand that Riot want to reduce his end game massacre.
But the functionality is a buff.
You can gain fury (if you are not always at max, which I usually am) while you spin.
You can now life steal while you spin.
You can now cast mocking shout during your spin, which is actually quite an improvement.
Also, the levelling structure of the skill breaks the mould of how we have used it, which is to say take 1 point at level 1, and a second point at level 14. The cooldown penalty is worst at 1 point of spinning slash. We need to get it to level 5 if we want our old cooldown back. And let's face it, we want that cooldown back.


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Bluebehir

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Senior Member

07-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitey Oosik View Post
he's more op now then before.....2 penta's in one game.....yea need a fix!
Download LoLreplay.
Upload the file of said replay. Then we'll discuss.


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Bluebehir

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Senior Member

07-30-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asphyxiophiliac View Post
IMO bloodlust needs to have cirt% dmg not much but its what made trynda trynda. keep it the same consume bloodlust for hp loose crit dmg. Make his heal a bit better it is kinda horrible atm. and add bonuses to mocking shout and spin for furry...
I almost agree with you.
However, that 36% extra crit damage - while nice - wasn't what made trynda trynda, to use your phrase
It *was* a big part of Tryndamere's style. Don't get me wrong. But in reality, that 36% crit damage was just icing.
We were already getting (and still get) 260% crit damage, but that made it 296%.
On paper, triple damage all the time is just a bit much. On paper, that just doesn't seem fair. (I love dealing trip damage, don't get me wrong! But let's be broad minded, from the PoV of Trynd haters and Riot dev team)

So they nerfed him to 2.5 times damage, to show the MAJORITY of players that they are hearing the call. In return, they gave us little tricks that are subtle and can't be noticed. Like Spinning slash allowing us to cast Mocking Shout at the same time.
So instead of taking 2.1 hits to kill an Ashe, it takes us 2.8. From our point of view, it still takes three hits. But from ASHE's point of view, she didn't just get ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED in two hits.

In MY opinion, what made trynda trynda was his synergy. He lost health to improve crits, which ensured max damage, and he healed it back so he could continue to farm.
What we have now is he always max damages, but this amount is variable depending on how hurt we are. We can't really heal it back we have to run away.

Quote:
<snipped your idea>
with that i think he woudl be liek his olds self again instead of what he is now as well as incourperate teh system better. make the numbers small to ballance him out but it would synergize better

as always sorry for the bad grammar and terr a bad spelling
No probs with the spelling. I get the message.
Riot don't want the old Tryn. He caused problems. Any player who can't deal with the old Tryn has a bad play experience, and Riot wants overall good play experience.
They don't want Tryn players to have a bad experience, but if it comes to it, there's less Tryn players than there are Tryn haters. Majority rules.

What I am trying to do is find the adjustment that restores synergy and fun, while still achieving the balance Riot needs, while also removing the bad perception of Tryn.
People believe he's OP because when he's played well he IS op... (well... was....) at low to mid ELO, that is.


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