Mana Regen Runes For Ashe?

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StoRmRAiL

Senior Member

05-01-2010

Basically, i am going to let congo and cyclops fight it out here, but the bottom line for who started the thread is that you can go mana regen/level OR flat mana increase, it depends on YOU entirely. MY choice is to get mana regen/level, but it is up to you. Don't just blindly follow the comments here, use them, but try out something you like as well. May be you end up liking flat mana boost runes than mana regen , you never know. As to what you should be getting, start saving up for tier 3 runes, but get tier 1 runes at the moment. By saving up i mean not buying champs. Good luck to you




Oh and i favour Congo in the fight.


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congalong

Senior Member

05-01-2010

You can also always gamble the tier one runes. You might get some real nice ones


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JohnnyW

Senior Member

05-01-2010

As for runes, buy tier 1s only until you hit 20, then buy only tier 3s.

I also don't see the need for 18 mana regen runes, but it might work. I only run with 9 myself. And flat mana runes are bad. Just bad. Maybe they're okay on Singed.....but still no.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

05-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyw4life View Post
As for runes, buy tier 1s only until you hit 20, then buy only tier 3s.

I also don't see the need for 18 mana regen runes, but it might work. I only run with 9 myself. And flat mana runes are bad. Just bad. Maybe they're okay on Singed.....but still no.
Also Ryze.
Filling your glyphs and quints with mana nets you about 215 mana at level 1 - or an extra 20 damage on your Q.

For whichever champion you play, ALWAYS do the math for the static vs scaling runes.

For example, since talking about mana here (yellow, blue, quint only, as red are without fail armor pen):

Greater Quintessence of Intellect +37.5 mana
Greater Quintessence of Knowledge +4.17 mana per level (+75.06 at champion level 18)
They balance out at level 9.
Greater Glyph of Intellect +11.25 mana
Greater Glyph of Knowledge +1.42 mana per level (+25.56 at champion level 18)
They balance out at level 8.
Greater Seal of Intellect +6.89 mana
Greater Seal of Knowledge +1.17 mana per level (+21.06 at champion level 18)
They balance out at level 6.

So if you're looking to stack mana on a champion, the static yellows are nearly worthless (you pretty much always reach level 4 before your first blue pill). At which point you are only netting 9x2.21, or 19.89 mana more available for your first foray. Rarely even enough for a single ability use.
In contrast, your quintessences at level 4 are +60 mana if you went for statics, which is likely to matter more.

Next to look at would be mana regen vs mana.
Greater Quintessence of Intellect +37.5 mana
Greater Quintessence of Replenishment +1.25 mana regen / 5 sec.
It takes 150 seconds regenerating for the regen rune to net you as much mana as the static mana.
Greater Glyph of Intellect +11.25 mana
Greater Glyph of Replenishment +0.31 mana regen / 5 sec.
182 seconds for the regen to match the flat bonus.
Greater Seal of Intellect +6.89 mana
Greater Seal of Replenishment +0.41 mana regen / 5 sec.
Replenishment nets you 6.89 mana in 84 seconds. Almost always worth taking the regen in this case.

Greater Quintessence of Knowledge +4.17 mana per level
Greater Quintessence of Clarity +0.24 mana regen / 5 sec. per level
Coming in better than the static quint, the scaling numbers leave the regen rune only needing 87 seconds to break even.
Greater Glyph of Knowledge +1.42 mana per level
Greater Glyph of Clarity +0.08 mana regen / 5 sec. per level
89 seconds here.
Greater Seal of Knowledge +1.17 mana per level
Greater Seal of Clarity +0.1 mana regen / 5 sec. per level
Again for the seals, regen is far superior, requiring a mere 59 seconds to net you more mana.

The result of actually looking at the numbers is that generally speaking, if you're going for runes that scale with level, mana regeneration are a better bet than flat mana.
However, if you are comparing runes that are a static bonus across all levels, only seals should focus on regeneration. Quints and Glyphs take 2.5 - 3 minutes to measure up over time.

Personally with Ashe, I go 9x mana regen seals and 9x static mana glyphs, with my quints as armor pen. I'm a bit lacking on mana regen, but I'll usually just pick up a Faerie Charm early on, and turn it into a Tear of the Goddess or Mana Manipulator later if I'm doing well and can spare the cash. Either fixes my mana problems forever. Tear is actually a godsend in any game where I don't have a reason to take Banshee's Veil, as the +mana stacks up really fast once you start volleying at least once every 5 seconds (do that for 3 minutes and you'll hit 150 bonus mana already).

What matters most to me when playing Ashe is being able to lob volleys and still ECA early on, and mana regen alone doesn't manage that. You HAVE to have +mana runes, or a sapphire crystal (or both). And while I do like Sapphire Crystal on Ashe, I prefer being able to rush boots + brutalizer so that by level 6 I've already gotten 19% cooldown reduction, leaving me free to ECA every 61 seconds.


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Psychlops

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Senior Member

05-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by congalong View Post
@ above

With mana crystal, this is how I go back to base,

1, catalyst + boots
2. brutalizer
3. pickaxe
4. IE

More or less if I'm farming better or being heavily harassed which in your case, you're still going back to base more.

Explain to me how you're doing more damage to me? You don't have damage runes. Volley spam doesn't mean you aren't taking damage. I'm using it to chip away at your life every time I spam it. And, since it doesn't reset Ashe's passive, I can also crit you as well and attack you. You make it sound like I'm just going to spam volley and not harass you..
For some reason you assume I won't be volley spamming you back. Meiki + blue runes gives more mana than your gold blue runes until level 8 and I'm doing more effective damage to you because I either have more HP's than you or better dodge than you or most likely both are better. Your mana advantage is only slight and it likely won't matter because before I run out of mana you'll run out of hit points and I'll have pushed you off the creep. You simply can't stand toe to toe with my build and trade shots because you'll die first. A half full mana bar won't matter if you have to go back and heal. If you don't buy meiki pendant I'll have more mana than you as well until you're about level 10. I will harass you and force you away from the last hits and out farm you or likely kill you if you push back. You can't have everything in your build (or any build) and by over committing to mana regen you're sacrificing durability in this case. If you fall behind farming the mana regen will not give you an advantage over a guy with more gold than you. First one to BF sword has a big advantage ashe vs ashe. As soon as I have a BF sword I usually go kill ashe or another squishy right away.