AP Kogmaw Question

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

07-25-2011

The way I see it is damage diversification. With just 3 items, Kog'Maw can hit incredibly hard with magic damage. This leaves the remaining three to be virtually, whatever the hell you want.

Those three items are Madred's Bloodrazor, Sorc Shoes, and either Malady or Wit's End.

Now you have tons of AS, and combined with MPen runes, 30 MPen. From here, it doesn't matter if you go AP or AD, either way you will hit hard from far away. Figure out what your enemy is building, and adjust accordingly.

If the enemy is stacking armor, you can continue to go for AP, Mpen, and magic damage. Void Staff, Nashor's Tooth, Rabadon's, Zhonya's Hourglass... work in a Bveil for good measure.

If my enemy is intelligent and starts stacking magic resistance, I can itemize for AD. I have a ton of AS, so what do I need to make best use of AD? Flat AD and Crit. IE is a great choice. You can finish off your build with IE, Frozen Mallet, and Black Cleaver - assuming the game actually goes that long. Saying an auto-attacker can't use crit is like saying Ryze can't use CDR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Warrrrax

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-25-2011

Dont forget your mana regen item as you canot always count on bluebuff. I prefer Chalice since it is so cheap, easy, builds off of Meki and 2 pot starter, handles mana issues for the entire game, and even plugs my magic resist hole.

However you DO need Meditate and some MP5 runes to back it up to give it something to double.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Garooza

Senior Member

07-26-2011

Kogs easy guy mag pen
and mana regen runes all the way same for masteries

then your ap is great just max puke right away an ignore all others but ult

the reason i say this is kog is ranged when he gets close for his q he is gankable even if hes 1v1

your best bet is going haunting guise off the get go. then get boots play safe go mag pen boots if your in a tight spot but if you can hold off go for needlessly large rod. after that feel out the situation and determine your counter build if in ad danger go hourglass then you don't have to wait to go into team fights. finish boots (if you haven't done that already) here is the tricky part if you are happy with you ap effectiveness or they counter build because the three hit insanity then just get void staff to replace guise ( i never do) next step if you hate being ganked go ROA or scepter good choice if spell casters getting annoying.if you got hourglass go for death cap

visa versa

this is usually where they surrender after all this it's up to your style of gameplay. so far you are
1. guise
2.magpen boots
3.hourglass
4.deathcap.
5.open for counter build i did a lich bane
6.open for counter build i did phantom this was very effective

just gotta learn to time your ult between auto attack

you can run you enemies back they farm with epic puke

Hope this was helpful

p.s
replace mag pen boots with a/s boots if you copy this exactly


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hu4rollz

Senior Member

07-26-2011

Did nobody read the patch notes when bio-arcane barrage was switched to physical? Sorc boots and Malady are not optimal because most of your damage is physical, unless you are going AP in which case you should be picking a different hero.

Also, Madreds is overrated on him. You should only get it in situations where you would get it on other champions, which is mostly when you are targetting high HP champs a lot. Don't underestimate a standard AD carry build with some armor pen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

07-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by hu4rollz View Post
Did nobody read the patch notes when bio-arcane barrage was switched to physical? Sorc boots and Malady are not optimal because most of your damage is physical, unless you are going AP in which case you should be picking a different hero.

Also, Madreds is overrated on him. You should only get it in situations where you would get it on other champions, which is mostly when you are targetting high HP champs a lot. Don't underestimate a standard AD carry build with some armor pen.
BaB is magic damage. Always has been, always will be. So is every single one of his other abilities. The only patch change fixed a bug that resulted in the damage sometimes registering as physical damage.

I'd like some more explanation on how Madred's is overrated? What champion can deal 10% of an enemy's HP on every hit? I agree that a standard AD carry build can be effective, but you can have that build WITH Madred's, and crit on top of dealing 10% of their HP in magic damage.

And before you say, "Well it's really only 4-5% because of MR". That's why you run with MPen runes and Sorc Shoes, plus a Malady with your Q if you really need it. It's 10%, and that hurts every champion, even squishies. From there you can go for more MR/AS, or you can grab standard AD carry items. Either way, ignoring the effectiveness of Madred's is foolish.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hu4rollz

Senior Member

07-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
BaB is magic damage. Always has been, always will be. So is every single one of his other abilities. The only patch change fixed a bug that resulted in the damage sometimes registering as physical damage.
From: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/champi...h_of_the_abyss
"Kog'Maw's attacks gain range and deal a percent of the target's maximum health as physical damage."
Maybe the tooltip is bugged but I'm pretty sure I remember reading this in the patch notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
I'd like some more explanation on how Madred's is overrated? What champion can deal 10% of an enemy's HP on every hit? I agree that a standard AD carry build can be effective, but you can have that build WITH Madred's, and crit on top of dealing 10% of their HP in magic damage.

And before you say, "Well it's really only 4-5% because of MR". That's why you run with MPen runes and Sorc Shoes, plus a Malady with your Q if you really need it. It's 10%, and that hurts every champion, even squishies. From there you can go for more MR/AS, or you can grab standard AD carry items. Either way, ignoring the effectiveness of Madred's is foolish.
The only synergy Madred's has with Kog's W is for fighting tanks. Kog's great range means he shouldn't be fighting tanks if he can help it. I believe it is better to focus on items that can help you melt a softer target while they are CCed or in range for some other reason. You are going to do good dps on tanks with or without madreds.

Just like with any other hero, the question of buying madreds comes down to "how often am I attacking high hp targets" and "is magic damage better than phys". Too many Kogs just go straight for it because they want that 10% number without realizing there's hardly more synergy ( better at killing tanks, worse at squishies) than with other dps items.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

monkeyducktruck

Junior Member

07-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer10347 View Post
AD kog is sub-optimal. I will explain why:
As AD kog, you will be getting items that prioritize attack damage, crit, and maybe lifesteal, rather than attackspeed and ap. Becaues of this, AD Kog'Maws will generally be dealing a mix of both ap and ad damage. The problem though, is that AD abilities like crit and lifesteal don't stack with the AP damage of your Arcane Barrage. The other problem with AD kog is that he will generally go either armor pen or ap pen, but either way, the effect is crippled if you go AD. If you get last whisper, your ap damage will be quite low. If you get void staff in an AD build, your AD won't do all that much dmg.

So what should you build?
AP/Attackspeed mix.
Items like malady, bloodrazor, and void staff are great for Kog. The attackspeed increase scales with his W because you will land more attacks with it. The AP items will increase the % damage of W, making you shred tanks even more. Void staff + 15% pen from talent tree will make you deal roughly 6-7% pure damage, per hit. That's Vayne's silver bolts x2.5.

Avoid items like IE, Bloodthirster, and phantom dancer, because there are better alternatives. Kog does NOT need crit or lifesteal. EVER!

which is why i invest in the gunblade for spell vamp AND lifesteal, and manamune for AD and mana+mana regen and void staff then bloodrazor.....perfect.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

07-26-2011

The wiki says otherwise, and I tend to believe that over Riot's own site, since it is typically outdated:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...h_of_the_Abyss

Quote:
Originally Posted by hu4rollz View Post
The only synergy Madred's has with Kog's W is for fighting tanks. Kog's great range means he shouldn't be fighting tanks if he can help it. I believe it is better to focus on items that can help you melt a softer target while they are CCed or in range for some other reason. You are going to do good dps on tanks with or without madreds.

Just like with any other hero, the question of buying madreds comes down to "how often am I attacking high hp targets" and "is magic damage better than phys". Too many Kogs just go straight for it because they want that 10% number without realizing there's hardly more synergy ( better at killing tanks, worse at squishies) than with other dps items.
Dealing 10+% each hit is going to melt a squishy just as hard, if not harder than melting a tank. % of max HP isn't an anti-tank ability, it's an anti-health ability... just like every other damage ability in the game. The only difference is that the amount of hits to kill remains constant, independent of your target. If I hit my target with Void Ooze for 20% of their health, Ult them for 30% of their health, and then auto-attack them 3-4 times for the kill, that's still a very fast death. Tanks will always have more MR, and shouldn't be focused by anyone.

Not to mention, there are nearly always at least 2+ tanky DPS on the enemy team. Squishies can build HP items without sacrificing damage (RoA, Rylai's, Frozen Mallet, etc.). If I didn't want to take advantage of the 10% on-hit, I wouldn't play Kog... there are other ranged AD champs that actually scale with AD, and will accomplish that role MUCH better (MF, Ashe, Corki, Vayne, etc.)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

hu4rollz

Senior Member

07-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Dealing 10+% each hit is going to melt a squishy just as hard, if not harder than melting a tank. % of max HP isn't an anti-tank ability, it's an anti-health ability... just like every other damage ability in the game. The only difference is that the amount of hits to kill remains constant, independent of your target. If I hit my target with Void Ooze for 20% of their health, Ult them for 30% of their health, and then auto-attack them 3-4 times for the kill, that's still a very fast death. Tanks will always have more MR, and shouldn't be focused by anyone.
Umm... what? If Madreds really is allowing "the amount of hits to kill remain constant, independent of your target" then it is also trading off soft target damage for tank damage (because soft targets should take less hits to kill, not the same amount as tanks). But then you say you don't want to target tanks in the last sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
Not to mention, there are nearly always at least 2+ tanky DPS on the enemy team. Squishies can build HP items without sacrificing damage (RoA, Rylai's, Frozen Mallet, etc.). If I didn't want to take advantage of the 10% on-hit, I wouldn't play Kog... there are other ranged AD champs that actually scale with AD, and will accomplish that role MUCH better (MF, Ashe, Corki, Vayne, etc.)
Actually Kog scales quit well with AD because he can do tons of sustained damage from longer range than any of those heroes (corki/mf ults notwithstanding) and has a crazy attack steroid. There's no reason you need Madred's to make this true.

It's all about DPS per gold cost. Besides choices of targets, there is nothing in Kog's ability set that makes Madred's do more damage on him than it does on other ranged ad heroes. So I'm saying that like them, you should make your buying choices based on who you are targeting.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

07-26-2011

I totally agree on making your buying choices based on your target, but I still think Madred's Bloodrazor should be part of a core build. No matter what you're targeting, Bloodrazor adds AS and additional magic damage (that scales evenly through the game). You can make it exceptionally hard to build defense where, if someone were to build Armor, I can continue to capitalize on magic damage, and if they build MR, I can use my already high AS (from my core) to capitalize on AD and Crit.

The only 'crazy steroid' he has, is W for the range. Other than that, he has nothing in his kit that benefits AD, lest you're in range to hit them with Q. The 40% passive AS boost on Q is not really 'crazy' compared to other AS and AD steroids, and benefits a magic damage build as well.


123