To the people saying that Hybrid Kayle is gone with her passive..

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serverny

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Senior Member

07-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coersion View Post
Hybrid Kayle is still going to be alive after this remake.
Nope.jpg

Only reason hybrid Kayle was so strong was her passive.
1) New Kayle WILL NOT be stronger than old Kayle with right runes early game, even at best.
2) New Kayle WILL BE a lot weaker lategame - cause her scaling was offically hit with nerfbat. And old Kayle wasn't even OP lategame - she was comparable to other carries, but with penetration itemization issues.


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AxisXIViral

Senior Member

07-23-2011

I'll tell you this much. I've played Kayle for a long time, and I'm kinda weary about the changes. The passive change was a HUGE hit to her power.

Either way, I'll try the remake, and use different builds if I must. But the bottom line is, if she's too UP, Riot will know, because there will be backlash, and she'll get small buffs to get back to viability again.

This is how Riot deals with every champion.

EDIT: I'm also in gigantic agreement with the above poster.


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Thivus

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Senior Member

07-23-2011

+1


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Mr Threepwood

Senior Member

07-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coersion View Post
If you wanna hear about multiplication then look at her new passive and the properties of defensive items. Mitigation is calculated multipicatively

100 MR will cut down Magic damage by 50%, same goes for Armor. By shredding percentages of her MR and Armor you will be dealing more damage than just stacks AD or AP because you are ignoring a multiplicative factor. What's better, having your damage effectively cut in half or trying to break through that mitigation and deal more damage? This is why penetration is so important. Kayle's new passive will give her the ability to go AD and AP without having to itemize for penetration.
Have you read ANY of my posts? By halving their armor AND mr, you don't want to go both MR AND AR, you want to go ONE or the OTHER and then get flat penetration! And because her AP ratios are WACK you want to go AD. Or proc and then you want magic pen. Your passive does NOT keep you from itemizing penetration. Hey, look kid, I'll double your damage. Now do you want an item that will add 50 more AD or an item that will multiply your damage again by 1.2 or whatever. Right, look, flat penetration is not WORSE with this passive, it's BETTER and makes you want it EVEN MORE! If ghostblade WAS EVER an option, it's NOT EVEN A QUESTION now. You WILL go ArPen runes or Mpen runes and trying to split your damage will decrease the effect of these runes, any crit chance you get AND attack speed, because frankly, <.2 AP to AAs is not worth the sacrafice of AD. And why are you comparing AP on a Gunblade to blasting wands? Gunblade is a completed item, blasting wands are far less efficient than say, a Death Cap. You get a phantom dancer? You can pretty much multiply the cost efficiency of ANY ad item you've gotten to this point by 1.5. That's what AS and crit chance do. Get IE? Again, mulitiply EVERY OTHER ITEM by 1.5 or so. It stacks MULTIPLICATIVELY. Hybrid items, are ADDITIVE. The more you get, the less interesting they are. The AS on Guinsoo's, that multiplies, but that's pretty low AS, and conditional. Guinsoo's is just a sexy item, I'll give you that, I'm tempted to play it on almost everyone, but losing that slot for Crit chance or reasonable AS is not ok.

As for comparison to corki, yes, I'm comparing her HYBRID viability to Corki. You saying that she has damage mitigation and speed boost to allies? That doesn't in ANY WAY touch on the hybrid issue. I'm not saying Corki is better. I'm saying he'd be a better choice for hybrid builds. If he doesn't go hybrid, she shouldn't either.


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Coersion

Senior Member

07-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Threepwood View Post
Have you read ANY of my posts? By halving their armor AND mr, you don't want to go both MR AND AR, you want to go ONE or the OTHER and then get flat penetration! And because her AP ratios are WACK you want to go AD. Or proc and then you want magic pen. Your passive does NOT keep you from itemizing penetration. Hey, look kid, I'll double your damage. Now do you want an item that will add 50 more AD or an item that will multiply your damage again by 1.2 or whatever. Right, look, flat penetration is not WORSE with this passive, it's BETTER and makes you want it EVEN MORE! If ghostblade WAS EVER an option, it's NOT EVEN A QUESTION now. You WILL go ArPen runes or Mpen runes and trying to split your damage will decrease the effect of these runes, any crit chance you get AND attack speed, because frankly, <.2 AP to AAs is not worth the sacrafice of AD. And why are you comparing AP on a Gunblade to blasting wands? Gunblade is a completed item, blasting wands are far less efficient than say, a Death Cap. You get a phantom dancer? You can pretty much multiply the cost efficiency of ANY ad item you've gotten to this point by 1.5. That's what AS and crit chance do. Get IE? Again, mulitiply EVERY OTHER ITEM by 1.5 or so. It stacks MULTIPLICATIVELY. Hybrid items, are ADDITIVE. The more you get, the less interesting they are. The AS on Guinsoo's, that multiplies, but that's pretty low AS, and conditional. Guinsoo's is just a sexy item, I'll give you that, I'm tempted to play it on almost everyone, but losing that slot for Crit chance or reasonable AS is not ok.

As for comparison to corki, yes, I'm comparing her HYBRID viability to Corki. You saying that she has damage mitigation and speed boost to allies? That doesn't in ANY WAY touch on the hybrid issue. I'm not saying Corki is better. I'm saying he'd be a better choice for hybrid builds. If he doesn't go hybrid, she shouldn't either.
Ok theorycrafting at this point will do no good. Time to just wait for the patch and necro when we both have experience with new Kayle.


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Rakaydos

Senior Member

07-23-2011

While Threepwood has a point that you'd get greater mileage out of one defence or the other, that only works until you've reduced their defences to zero. Most squishies will wait for their last two items to get defence, so by grabbing Arpen runes and sorc boots with your Rageblade, you get the gold efficency of hybridization with complete penetration.


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DiscOH

Senior Member

07-23-2011

Free gold passives arent toxic, in fact, most passives give free gold or better. Corki for example not only turns 10% of your damage into more ("armor proof") damage. Is the passive the reason corki is op? No, his strong early game, escape mechanism and AoE skill based damage is what makes him so competitive.

Free gold passives are only toxic if you don't balance the champion with them in mind.


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Coersion

Senior Member

07-23-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscOH View Post
Free gold passives arent toxic, in fact, most passives give free gold or better. Corki for example not only turns 10% of your damage into more ("armor proof") damage. Is the passive the reason corki is op? No, his strong early game, escape mechanism and AoE skill based damage is what makes him so competitive.

Free gold passives are only toxic if you don't balance the champion with them in mind.
Corki's passive isn't the free gold passives that are being referred to.


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PureDestruction

Senior Member

07-23-2011

looks like they made is so basically you build like kog and you wreck like kog...except you have a speed boost and invincibility for 3s that you can use on anyone.(also shorter range too, and just like kog you want tons of CDR to keep your range increase up)