To the people saying that Hybrid Kayle is gone with her passive..

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Coersion

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Hybrid Kayle is still going to be alive after this remake. Phreak showed you ONE build for her. Just because her insanely high free gold passive is gone doesn't mean that it limits her to AP. I'm not sure if Phreak mentioned this, but her passive will shred Armor AND Mres. E still does physical AND magic damage. Her Q will still increase damage overall. Her W has been made to be more clutch, and I don't know about you but movement speed is probably one of the best stats in the game.

Also, about her old passive being removed. Free gold passives are toxic. They make it so when a person has a good early start, they snowball out of control and if they are at equal footing with other champions then they still come out higher just because of the passive. Look at Vlad and Jax. They both have free gold passives and they are both fundamentally broken. Vlad has been nerfed countless times and is STILL annoying, and Jax is based off of a stat that is soon to be removed.

Also I don't know about you, but penetration is very hard to itemize on a hybrid. It's never worth it to spend money on just one penetration item because with that money you could have gotten some other cost efficient hybrid item. Also, this passive doesn't ignore, it shreds. Meaning that other teammates will benefit from this passive.

While you guys QQ like the Ryze remake, I'll be playing her and investigating her power with a level head.

Also to all the HERP DERP YU DUN KNO WHAT TOXIC IS people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stexe View Post
Free gold passives, like the one Kayle used to have (and the ones Jax and Vlad and currently have, and to a lesser degree Galio) are extremely toxic to the game.

What do free gold passives REALLY promote, because it isn't hybridization of items: it is item snowballing. Not only are hybrid items already very cost effective due to many hybrid champions not having free gold passives, but when you combine that with free gold passives, it becomes exponentially problematic.

Have you ever wondered why Vlad and Jax and Kayle have been so hard to balance? Why they can be completely useless in one game and the game winning in the next? Hint: their free gold passive plays a very large part in this.

The simple fact is that free gold passives create something that most other skills do not -- that of free gold and exponentially scaling benefits. Getting bonus stats from items makes you more powerful and get more items, which gives you more bonus stats. Typically, this is why there aren't many "steroid" abilities in League of Legends (skills that increase values based on what items you have, like Tristana's Attack Speed bonus which is amplified by what items she has). It is very difficult to balance skills that rely on items, which can vary greatly as the game goes on.

There are whole heaps of mess that come from free gold passives, and this doesn't even touch the tip of the iceberg. I'd suggest searching the forums for comments from designers on this subject, since they might offer better insight into the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShaella View Post
To anyone that says free gold passives aren't toxic

Yes they are, they're part of why why Galio/Vlad/Jax are all nerfed into the ground, somehow Kayle escaped it, but free gold passives give champions stats that are in huge excess of what any other champ could aquire, making those champs extremely hard to deal with lategame, and it also makes them snowball harder as they get quite a bit more effectiveness from their items than a normal champ

Its toxic.


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Coersion

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Bumping to get it in the head of people.


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Xae7

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coersion View Post
Hybrid Kayle is still going to be alive after this remake. Phreak showed you ONE build for her. Just because her insanely high free gold passive is gone doesn't mean that it limits her to AP. I'm not sure if Phreak mentioned this, but her passive will shred Armor AND Mres. E still does physical AND magic damage. Her Q will still increase damage overall. Her W has been made to be more clutch, and I don't know about you but movement speed is probably one of the best stats in the game.

Also, about her old passive being removed. Free gold passives are cancer. They make it so when a person has a good early start, they snowball out of control and if they are at equal footing with other champions then they still come out higher just because of the passive. Look at Vlad and Jax. They both have free gold passives and they are both fundamentally broken. Vlad has been nerfed countless times and is STILL annoying, and Jax is based off of a stat that is soon to be removed.

Also I don't know about you, but penetration is very hard to itemize on a hybrid. It's never worth it to spend money on just one penetration item because with that money you could have gotten some other cost efficient hybrid item. Also, this passive doesn't ignore, it shreds. Meaning that other teammates will benefit from this passive.

While you guys QQ like the Ryze remake, I'll be playing her and investigating her power with a level head.
Do you own her?

I bet not.


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Pawleader

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Senior Member

07-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xae7 View Post
Do you own her?

I bet not.
How does somebody not own kayle... shes 450 ip.


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Coersion

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xae7 View Post
Do you own her?

I bet not.
Yes I do, you idiot. "LOL U NUBS DONT EVEN OWN KAYLE IM A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE" No you're not.


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Deedsie

Senior Member

07-22-2011

I'm mainly pissed with the damage amplification reduction on Reckoning and lower AP ratio from Righteous Fury. It won't change the build I've been using for the longest time, though.


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PlayerFour

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Senior Member

07-22-2011

+1 You make good points, especially about the Passive (I personally like the new passive- it may not be better, but I still like it more).


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Coersion

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deedsie View Post
I'm mainly pissed with the damage amplification reduction on Reckoning and lower AP ratio from Righteous Fury. It won't change the build I've been using for the longest time, though.
We haven't seen definite numbers yet, so don't jump the gun yet. Last I remember from the pseudo remake, her Q was boosted to a 1:1 AP ratio as compensation.


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Bolshoi

Senior Member

07-22-2011

I support this message.


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KaiZoku Ou Ni

Senior Member

07-22-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coersion View Post
Yes I do, you idiot. "LOL U NUBS DONT EVEN OWN KAYLE IM A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE" No you're not.
Clearly you are a pro Kayle when you have played 0 ranked games with her amirite? So we should all listen to you, instead of Tweakerboy, who is at 2100 ELO with Kayle as his main champ.

What a tarded community.


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