Redesigning Dr Mundo

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dollface

Junior Member

09-08-2009

Well most people agree that cleave needs a bit of adjustment, I think it would be better if it dealt more damage the less health they had, or increased the amount it slowed, at the moment I think his cleave has the lowest duration of any slow skill. I consently have to let champions get away with a sliver of health because cleave just cant get the job done. A side note, you would think with all the experments he has dont on himself he would have come up with one type of poison attack or something, I mean just look at him, he looks like his attacks would leave a DoT on people or something.


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Ductape

Member

09-08-2009

If infected cleaver ignored minions, it would be great. If it were targeted it would actually be a little overpowered, i mean 25% current health in damage? On a tank that could easily be 1k damage at the start of a fight and against anyone else its still a respectable nuke.


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shedim

Senior Member

09-09-2009

I've played 20+ games just with Mundo and here is my feedback:

Well, I like lasthitting creeps with the cleaver. I'd rather make that huuuuuge cleaver cut trough everything in it's path once thrown. And give him a passive, damage-increasing or heal-decreasing dot.

As far as I'm concerned, the cleaver is an ability meant to chase fleeing people, or lasthit them when they are far away. If the changes I suggested above would be too strong, then leave it the way it is, but make the hit-box more accurate and increase the range and speed a little bit. Thus, why not making the snare snare for as much % as the target is missing HP? But still, I'd prefer the cuts-through-creeps-and-units-cleaver. Instantly fixes the hit-issues and you still gotta aim that thing.

Burning Agony is ****. It helps clearing a lane, but makes you lose a lot of hp, making you prone to ganks. A lot of champions can clear lanes way better and without any risks at all. This ability MUST be changed. Either by making it deal additional daamge (missing% of either Mundo's or his target's hp) or change it completely . Keep the passive, since it is needed, but make the active reduce the damage of all hostile units within range by a % of the hp Mundo is missing. or make him apply an aura, which increases the damage of friendly targets by the % healt they are missing. Or give him an aura, which gives friendly champions a chance to briefly stun their opponent with autoattacks. The chance should depend on how much hp Mundo is missing. The more he is hurt, the higher the chance. This would make Mundo more useful as a tank and in teamfights.

But these abilities require a non-ultimate heal for our beloved Doctor.

Also, Dr.Mundo is labeled as a disabler in the champion info panel, but he does not have any disable at all. Also, he's meant to have strong spells, but they are just mediocre to inferior. Also, they do not scale with anything at all (except Burning Agony, which scales with ability power, something no Mundo will ever use/stack). Since this champion is based around health, regenerating and sacrificing health, why don't you just make all his abilities scale with his max hp? The more HP you get, the better the abilities. Makes sense. Not every Mundo goes for hp. Personally, I go for the Frozen Mallet, Force of Nature and Phantom Dancer, which works surprizingly well. I think he is not viable if you go for max hp and this won't change, even if you make his abilities scale with hp.

Mundo is a champion, who works best when on low hp. But low hp means instant death in 99% of the teamfights. I think his ulti is fine, the regeneration helps a lot, but that is not enough. Instead of cooldown reduction (you gotta flee, since it is not a instant heal, it's a hot) the ulti should just increase your resistance to crowd control by +10%/+20%/+30% or generally reduce incoming damage by some percentage.

Mundo's biggest issue are team fights. Your dancing hp bar is rather a liability there, as a strenghth and he really needs a change that makes him more durable. Thus, he's only viable as a tank, who soaks up damage. 2 of his abilities are rather useless in teamfights, where creeps constantly block your cleaver and Burning Agony would be suicide. He desperately needs more utility here, which could be achieved by either giving him a disable, or changing cleaver and agony.


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Bregan

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Senior Member

09-09-2009

burning agony is so useless right now. the damage is terrible and not worth the degen, especially at early levels. trying to max that and cleaver is useless. agony will only get you killed. therefor the build is to max cleaver and his 3rd skill, meh its ok. but late game agony's damage is especially worthless. just grab a sunfire cape and give him a different skill plox.


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shedim

Senior Member

09-09-2009

I agree on Burning Agony. Though, I think it's meant to synnergize with Masochism. You lose health and gain additional damage. But Unfortunately, Burning Agnoy synnergizes with the hostile champions' damage way better. On paper, the skill is cool and works fine in pve - but this game isn't about pve. And Burning Agony is by far the worst ability in this game so far.

Generally speaking, I think all of Mundo's abilities are underpowered.

The cleaver needs to cut through creeps and the snare is too weak. Best solution: Cleaver cuts through everything in it's path until it hits a hero and snares heroes by a % of health they're missing or the more they are hurt, the longer does the snare last on them when hit, so you actually can keep up with them. You can not toss the cleaver through multiple heroes.

Burning Agony's passive is fine. It already synnergizes with hitpoints, that's great. However, the active should become either an active selfheal, like his ulti, but weaker and with a lower cooldown, or a life leech or a disable. I'd prefer the heal, though.
Or Ultimate remains the same, but Burning Agony's active grants immunity to crowd control for as long as it is toggled. It keeps draining your health while doing so.
But omg, where is his creep-killing capability, then?
He can still be a great creep-killer, when his cleaver cuts through them. You still gotta position yourself and you still have to aim the cleaver, but it is now way more pleasant to use since it does not cause that crappy issues like constantly hitting things you did not want to hit, due to the messed-up hit box. For instance, I tossed the cleaver at a maxed out size Cho'Gath, but the cleaver went just through him until I started aiming at where his regular small size used to be - and hit. That's ridiculous.

Masochism should be spamable, so the duration is as long as the cooldown. Does not need any synnergy with bull**** agony, then, since it synnergizes wery well with incoming damage and Mundo's abilities' health costs.

Sadism should increase crowd control resistance and damage resistance massively instead of a hot and the other ****, to ensure you can temporarily stay with low hp infight in a teamfight. Same duration and cooldown.

That is the problem with Mundo. he is similar to Tryndamere, but Mundo is supposed to stay at low health to perform best - and Trynd has the invulnerability even though that would have suited Mundo way way better.


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plasmatorture

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Senior Member

09-09-2009

Burning Agony just needs a (signifcant) damage and (moderate) range buff, why reinvent what already almost works?

Sadism is fine, could use a slight increase in regen rate. I love the movespeed bonus.


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dollface

Junior Member

09-09-2009

Would be neat if they made Masochism a passive, a little less base damage and up the bonus for lower health.


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SlyGoat

Member

09-09-2009

The problem with Burning Agony IMHO, is it doesn't have any secondary effect to encourage you to use it. It's just "will this bit of extra damage help me more than it hinders me?" - and usually the answer is no.

Pudge (DotA)'s rot skill is similar, albeit higher damage, but it also has a secondary effect - a slow which makes it useful for chasing and lets you throw in autoattacks without losing your target.

As Mundo already has a slow which is fairly spammable despite its low duration, I think he'd benefit from Burning Agony reducing armor and magic resistance of nearby enemies while it's active. Something like 6/12/18/24/30 reduction to both would make it a lot more useful, synergize better with his skills and make him more of an asset in team fights. A slight range increase would be nice but probably not necessary; but at the very least, reduce the effect's visual size, as the edge of it can be touching enemies but not damaging them.




The only other issue I see is cleaver's range makes it only somewhat useful for chasing and harrassing. It could use maybe a 15% increase. And the slow effect, as has been noted, isn't very powerful or original, so how about more of a "Purge"; the target is immobilized very briefly and regains its speed over a few seconds, giving you more time to catch up.

Oh, and I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned; fix cleaver's cast time. If you move immediately after casting it, it will sometimes be canceled, not firing a cleaver but still putting the skill on cooldown and damaging you. Very annoying when trying to chase.


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shedim

Senior Member

09-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
The problem with Burning Agony IMHO, is it doesn't have any secondary effect to encourage you to use it. It's just "will this bit of extra damage help me more than it hinders me?" - and usually the answer is no.

Pudge (DotA)'s rot skill is similar, albeit higher damage, but it also has a secondary effect - a slow which makes it useful for chasing and lets you throw in autoattacks without losing your target.

As Mundo already has a slow which is fairly spammable despite its low duration, I think he'd benefit from Burning Agony reducing armor and magic resistance of nearby enemies while it's active. Something like 6/12/18/24/30 reduction to both would make it a lot more useful, synergize better with his skills and make him more of an asset in team fights. A slight range increase would be nice but probably not necessary; but at the very least, reduce the effect's visual size, as the edge of it can be touching enemies but not damaging them.




The only other issue I see is cleaver's range makes it only somewhat useful for chasing and harrassing. It could use maybe a 15% increase. And the slow effect, as has been noted, isn't very powerful or original, so how about more of a "Purge"; the target is immobilized very briefly and regains its speed over a few seconds, giving you more time to catch up.

Oh, and I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned; fix cleaver's cast time. If you move immediately after casting it, it will sometimes be canceled, not firing a cleaver but still putting the skill on cooldown and damaging you. Very annoying when trying to chase.
Best suggestions made here so far. Yes, Burning agony should work like pudge's rot.

The claevar works most times though. I hit several fools with the cleaver by turning away the same time I tossed the cleaver, leaving them behind being hit by a invisible cleaver. Very nasty, since they tend not to dodge, then. But several times, the enemy was within range and the cleaver clearly did not hit. That is very frustrating.


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