#1 Method of Escaping ELO Hell

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ryzeonline

Senior Member

06-09-2011

Brilliant. I fully agree, Zephier.

I always focus on solutions, and I don't waste one breath of energy blaming someone else, it does practically nothing.

Also, I call it "Taking Responsibility" for the loss, 'cause blame throws red flags on everyone who doesn't like "blaming" themselves.


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Dr rAndOm

Senior Member

06-09-2011

@Zyphier

Question 1: How do you think beginners would listen to you in a solo game that they dont know you r far more better than them?

Question 2: How do you make sure that those beginners know what u mean? Will you keep typing all the time? Is it worth to do so? There are reasons that beginners r beginners with 300 wins. 5% of them can do well and it's not because of talent. Most beginners still play without using their brain.


Question 3: Assume that beginners take only 1 sec to react and they can "understand" you, how can they act like good players? You can predict what good players will do but you have no idea what beginners are doing. Unless you are someone super intelligent to master everything. ( when you turn something into instinct...it's not possible for me to make 2 instincts for the same thing.. and switch the 2 instincts at the right time you want. lol

Question 4: Just like I said... beginners always disagree good ideas and they make good ideas bad by the bad performance. That's why none of us expect much from them. How can you teach them everything that necessary to win a game in 20 mins? Do you think it's worth to say that much? Only for those beginners that are smart enough probably.

Question 5: You dont know what a team means. :/

A team means the team, not anyone in it... It's the teammates in it who r supposed to do the right things for the team. If you value yourself more, it's hard to call what you r doing "teamwork".

Again, this is a teamwork game. You dont have to be nice for bad guys. I paid to play this game for fun. It's but a game. Still I am doing the right things and good things for the team 95% of the time. RIOT just sent beginners to our team to balance the game. Every time it's almost the similar situations in solo games. What will you do? Will you be nice all the time, and teach everyone how to play no matter how rude they are ? Is that something possible?

It's always easy to say than to do. ^ ^


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Zyphier

Senior Member

06-09-2011

How do you carry a game with a jungler or support? It's much harder compared to a solo lane, since you can't out cs the opponent, and you can't zone / kill them in the lane. So you give orders to your team, ward and seize opportunities.

I can actually preach what I'm saying because I just have to type a few sentences and ping, and people will follow me. I don't care if they are a beginner, their mere presence will win a fight when we have a number advantage. You don't lose 4 v 3's (4 being your team), even when one or two of them are noob. Opponents will back out when they see you have more guys, because even if your team sucks, you still have a good advantage.

I win a lot of my games as junglers by controlling dragon, then later controlling baron. Warding and ganking around those areas at appropriate times of the game. I win my games as a support by warding important areas, and rallying my teammates when the opponent makes mistakes. Now how have I been able to lead my team when I see opportunities in the game even if they suck? I just ping and explain. The wards say it all. I think you are expecting too little of your teammates, and I don't think you even try or you just don't ward enough. I will ping excessively, get my message heard and get my teammates to come.

I've had situations where there are people who don't listen at all and just solo push. Whatever, I use them to an advantage. Get the other four of us group up on the other side of the map to push or gank. Back out when your opponents have 5 guys, your 1 ****** is pushing a lane by himself. If they have 4 or 3, I try to force a fight if I think we can win.

You have to adapt to situations around team mates and if you dont take the effort to ward and to lead games, your team will lose more often than not. Chances are at ELO Hell the enemy team won't be as organised as you, and you will eventually win the game by giving good orders.

Or you can just assume your teammates suck, think that they will make bad decisions, and don't do anything about it. It's really up to you. I can carry games with support and jungle, exclusively by pointing out opportunities and trying my best to get my team to seize them, so I know they work.


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IS1a420802574b139f7409f

Senior Member

06-09-2011

Ahh, ignorance is bliss.

It makes it so easy to sound confident about spouting wisecracks. While entertaining, your post is rather uninformed. Either you made this purely out of desire to entertain/troll this forum which is so obsessed with the concept or you've never much played in Elo Hell.

Anyway, you guys really need to stop handing down the oh-so-lofty-pearls of wisdom to poor benighted people in Elo Hell. Instead, do them a favor and support rating reset at the end of the season. If you get to your true rating via skill - you'll have no problem with that, right?


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Zyphier

Senior Member

06-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
Ahh, ignorance is bliss.

It makes it so easy to sound confident about spouting wisecracks. While entertaining, your post is rather uninformed. Either you made this purely out of desire to entertain/troll this forum which is so obsessed with the concept or you've never much played in Elo Hell.

Anyway, you guys really need to stop handing down the oh-so-lofty-pearls of wisdom to poor benighted people in Elo Hell. Instead, do them a favor and support rating reset at the end of the season. If you get to your true rating via skill - you'll have no problem with that, right?
I have no qualms with the ELO reset, it will hopefully help those players who are only marginally better than their ELO to escape their ELO hell.

I have played in ELO hell, please don't be so presumptuous. This article is a response to players who complain about their rating but don't take the initiative or the extra effort to improve their game. Driving yourself to improve is a sure fire way of getting out of ELO hell. Just playing the same game you've played that got you into ELO hell will not get you out fast, you need to play beyond that to carry games with bad odds.

Please tell me how this article is uninformed, I'd happily change it to something more accurate if you'd be so kind to point it out.


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DuffTime

Senior Member

06-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphier View Post
@ sn3aks

If you won't even watch streams then you're wasting the best resource for improving your game. It's the same for DotA where they had replays.

There was a very good quote on the forums before.

The difference between high ELO and low ELO players is that high ELO players know who is stronger, while low ELO players find out who is stronger.

This is very important skill in this game, recognizing opportunities and situations. It transfers on from watching to your games. If you just play your game, you will miss out a lot of details since you are concentrated on playing your game. Take team fights for example. If you play a team fight, you have to concentrate on your role, try not to die and focus on aiming your spells or skill shots. When you watch a team fight on stream, you don't have to concentrate on those things, you see the team fight from a third persons view. You see who casts their spells on who, who is positioning themselves correctly, how people reposition themselves when they are caught and so on. You learn if you should dive for your enemy carries, or just protect your own carries. You learn that sometimes it is the right move to hit the tank, because hitting the enemy carries is too dangerous / not worth it.

Streams also teach you good item builds. I'm not sure what your item builds are right now, but its easy to lose games because you didn't build it optimally, when the enemy carry did. If both of you get the same amount of gold, the one who buys smarter items will ultimately be stronger.

This game has quite a steep learning curve if you want to be good. A lot of people don't realize the little details you need to be good at the game. Take streams seriously, and I promise you won't regret it.

And yes, even though a lot of times it is not your fault, just pinning the blame on team mates does not drive you to improve yourself. Ask yourself, do you think you would get better if at the end of a game you lost, say your teammates did badly and just play the next game? Or would you improve much more, if you kept asking yourself what you could have done better? Did you pick the right lanes to gank? Should you have farmed up when your teammates were having trouble? The faster you want to improve your game, the less you will have to rely on even match ups. If you're good, you can turn the entire enemy team into feeders.

Also, finding people to duo queue at low ELO is harder, most of the do not communicate much at that level.

@ Antnerd

Keep playing. If you carry like that every game, you will easily rise in ELO. If you don't, then ask yourself why you don't carry like that every single game. I never said its easy to escape ELO hell, I just said you got to be mentally prepared to do so.

@ Dr rAndOm

Taken from my reply to sn3aks.

Even though a lot of times it is not your fault, just pinning the blame on team mates does not drive you to improve yourself. Ask yourself, do you think you would get better if at the end of a game you lost, say your teammates did badly and just play the next game? Or would you improve much more, if you kept asking yourself what you could have done better? Did you pick the right lanes to gank? Should you have farmed up when your teammates were having trouble? The faster you want to improve your game, the less you will have to rely on even match ups. If you're good, you can turn the entire enemy team into feeders.
You're saying all the right things =P I imagine people find you more helpful than me lol.

I lose patience with the guys like herdsheep =P


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Saephon

Member

06-10-2011

While I mostly agree with your viewpoint and the original post, I think you're wrong when you say that every game is winnable. No one is perfect and you can always play better than you did, yes. But sometimes those games come along where the skill levels of the teams are so imbalanced that it would be silly to suggest that you can carry everything.

Again, it's always good to look at your mistakes so you can learn from them and win those games that are not quite so impossible. But a game where someone AFKs, dc's, and their vayne is fed 14 kills at the 10 minute mark? Yeah, don't be surprised if that one doesn't work out.

On a final note, I wish more people realized that these bad players somehow surface at every Elo. You all say to watch high level streams (which I do of course). Surely you've seen those games where people troll or are just plain awful? If it can happen at 2000+ and a top 10 LoL player can't carry the game, why would a 1400 player be able to? There's an element of luck to this game's matchmaking, no matter how high the Elo ladder you climb. Anyone who disagrees doesn't watch enough 2k+ streams. There's no way to permanently escape feeders.


TL;DR: agree with the OP's point of view, but don't be surprised when you can't win every game no matter how many mistakes you correct.


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Descyphal

Senior Member

06-10-2011

Felix, you're the man.


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Bálsagna

Senior Member

06-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Culpa View Post
While I mostly agree with your viewpoint and the original post, I think you're wrong when you say that every game is winnable. No one is perfect and you can always play better than you did, yes. But sometimes those games come along where the skill levels of the teams are so imbalanced that it would be silly to suggest that you can carry everything.

Again, it's always good to look at your mistakes so you can learn from them and win those games that are not quite so impossible. But a game where someone AFKs, dc's, and their vayne is fed 14 kills at the 10 minute mark? Yeah, don't be surprised if that one doesn't work out.

On a final note, I wish more people realized that these bad players somehow surface at every Elo. You all say to watch high level streams (which I do of course). Surely you've seen those games where people troll or are just plain awful? If it can happen at 2000+ and a top 10 LoL player can't carry the game, why would a 1400 player be able to? There's an element of luck to this game's matchmaking, no matter how high the Elo ladder you climb. Anyone who disagrees doesn't watch enough 2k+ streams. There's no way to permanently escape feeders.


TL;DR: agree with the OP's point of view, but don't be surprised when you can't win every game no matter how many mistakes you correct.

I will have to agree with this and his point of view. But here is another 0.02c thrown into the mix

So what if you're right, don't get distracted by woman, don't do this, don't do that.

But what if Bob gives in to the woman? You lose -- and this happens in the lower Elo way too often.

This would all be find and dandy and very theoretical..... if everyone did.... just that. But you don't, and as stated, you get the DC's, you get the AFK's, you get the woman wanting you for your wildest dreams (yeah, I keep going t here)

And you expect us to carry as a Sona/Soraka??? no ty come again


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Descyphal

Senior Member

06-10-2011

Indeed. The thing is, what most people are forgetting is this, too:

The lower you go - the higher the chance of all of the worst case scenarios.
Once you lose, it's a snowball effect. Lose once. Head to the lower spectrum of bads. Possibly lose again, and go lower.
Win once. Lose again, lose again after... and continue down. If starting at 1200 you get an afk and rage in your first game, and lose... You'll be matched with a higher potential of even worse off players, seeing as how, the lower you go - the worse the players, and the higher the chance of disruptions. This is indisputable.

See, people forget, elo hell isn't about the permanency of being stuck below a threshold. It's about **** spiraling out of control, and constantly getting worse and worse matchups, where you can't guarentee your carry will do their part enough to win(be it you, or your allies), to the point one doesn't even want to try anymore.

Elo Hell is about random occurances, which aren't random when all added up together. They're in virtually EVERY game.

This is why a ranking system based on Wins/Losses for an individual, through a TEAM BASED game, is an inaccurate method of matchmaking.

lolbase.net made a good ranking system based on champions. Riot needs to use that method along with their own system of "Per game averages" and create a champion based ranking system that's already implemented there in every summoner's profile.


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