!?! why even play kog !?! (not raging, i promise)

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Hqwxuz

Member

05-04-2011

LoL thats funny saying that Ap Kog doesnt do any dmg. By end game his e and q do 600 dmg his r does around 600 dmg and his w does 14% of the enemies hp per attack. Oh you can also get a lichbane for 700 dmg procs every 2 seconds....


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Munzta1

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Senior Member

05-04-2011

kog maw hurt......


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Mattrellen

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Senior Member

05-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigrein View Post
To be fair, bio arcane barrage gives six SECONDS of boosted autoattacks rather then 6 shots. At low levels its about the same thing but if you build for attack speed you can get up to 15 shots in that window. Not that Malz % based damage zone doesnt have its own advantages but Kog is anywhere from 36% (at high level I think even just caustic spittle will get you above 6 shots) to 90%

As a random aside, I know his passive isn't you know, GOOD, but it is a lot of fun, at least to me :P Best explosion I've had yet involved Jarvan trapping two of them in an arena with my body.
I'd like to see someone top my best explosion. I was going to lay a ward at baron, but...they were there, almost done, and demolished me. They went back to work on baron, and I walked up next to them...QUADRAKILL..oh, and it stole the baron buff.

The moral of the story is...one moment of glory like that is worth having a bad passive...and don't try to kill baron at low-ish levels if there is a kog on the other team.

I found him good for breaking up those stalemates that form with everyone grouped in mid. They want to hang out by the tower? Fine, eat my stomach acid! You want to kill me? go for it, lose one or two of you own, and abandon the tower as my body chases after you.

Beyond that, he mostly seems like a tank killer to me, but these two roles, while not the most important, certainly have a place in many matches.


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PunchGroin

Senior Member

05-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Blade100 View Post
ok so AD, corki and tristana better. MagPen = low dmg/survivability unless chewing tanks (the absolute only thing he excels at). his entire setup is low survivability which = wasting 1 or 2 summoner spells so he deosnt feed all game, which kills his early lane and getting himself fed (no exhaust and or ignite/heal) fed. AP got nerfed to ****. what can he do that is not better accomplished by others (except die trying to take the tank, heck, maybe he gets the tank, but he is dead)

he needs a buff.

oh yeah, and on top of all these flaws, he is so focused that it is hard to lay waste on the enemy team due to low atk range the sec his W is fried.

one more thing, i have laned with ezreal and ashe with kog, and with W active ashes auto atk range is almost as good and ezreals is the SAME as his.
He is a DPS machine, and he does it from ridiculous range. He just requires safer positioning and better support than corki or trist. (who have those preposterous built in escapes) That's why they are so much better in solo. But for a team that's built around him, Kog is extremely valuable. (Kog + Janna is disgusting. Just completely off the wall gross)

Yeah, hes about on par with ez' mystic shot range.... but he does it with his **** autoattacks, which already get insane bonuses from his steroids. (Possibly the best Steroid for any carry in the game) Even trist can't compete with his single target bombardment. (and he has armor pen in his kit, like corki, letting him itemize pure damage)


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SemiDeLion

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05-04-2011

Kog is cool and stuff. Maybe he has a problem with staying alive, but his passive just made for it. But... but 6k for that champ? No thanks. I spent 6k and now i hate him.


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ZestyJesty

Senior Member

05-04-2011

koggy is my main champ, and an amazing rdps, and yes he can carry, i do it all the time (even in ranked). If your dying, or getting initiated on as kog, then your playing him wrong. He is NOT Corki or Tristana, who can overextend every now and then and get away with it. Positioning means everything for kog, if you cant position yourself properly in teamfights then koggy is not the champ for you. I personally run MS quints, and always grab boots of swiftness, while running flash and ghost. no need for ignite, snipe with your ult, and flashing away is almost always better than exhausting one person, especially if your getting chased/dove (nocturne, akali, olaf, xin etc...) by multiple people. leave clarity and clairvoyance for supports, your job is to survive so you can rain death from afar, like....ya know.... artillery.

Kog can actually do extremely well in middle, i've outlaned almost every champ in mid, once he hits six laning becomes hell for your opponent. The versatility of his build options make him extremely hard to itemize against as a tank or tanky dps. AD does the most sustained and reliable damage (Madreds>BC>Frozen Mallet, although i've had similar success in certain situations where my team was lacking magic damage going madreds>malady>Wit's End. (MS quints, MP5/level blues and yellows, Mpen reds are always my runes regardless of AD or AS) (i AP sometimes for fun, but its not really that great against people that know how to dodge)

Even if you go AD, you should still be picking up the 15% spell pen in the offense tree, bio-arcane barrage is going to be your primary source of damage until you get at least two damage items.

Level void ooze first, you get more bang for your buck early game, followed by bio-arcane. no need for caustic spittle, its useless, level it last. R>E>W>Q


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Lucavious

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by rookeyjester View Post
koggy is my main champ, and an amazing rdps, and yes he can carry, i do it all the time (even in ranked). If your dying, or getting initiated on as kog, then your playing him wrong. He is NOT Corki or Tristana, who can overextend every now and then and get away with it. Positioning means everything for kog, if you cant position yourself properly in teamfights then koggy is not the champ for you. I personally run MS quints, and always grab boots of swiftness, while running flash and ghost. no need for ignite, snipe with your ult, and flashing away is almost always better than exhausting one person, especially if your getting chased/dove (nocturne, akali, olaf, xin etc...) by multiple people. leave clarity and clairvoyance for supports, your job is to survive so you can rain death from afar, like....ya know.... artillery.

Kog can actually do extremely well in middle, i've outlaned almost every champ in mid, once he hits six laning becomes hell for your opponent. The versatility of his build options make him extremely hard to itemize against as a tank or tanky dps. AD does the most sustained and reliable damage (Madreds>BC>Frozen Mallet, although i've had similar success in certain situations where my team was lacking magic damage going madreds>malady>Wit's End. (MS quints, MP5/level blues and yellows, Mpen reds are always my runes regardless of AD or AS) (i AP sometimes for fun, but its not really that great against people that know how to dodge)

Even if you go AD, you should still be picking up the 15% spell pen in the offense tree, bio-arcane barrage is going to be your primary source of damage until you get at least two damage items.

Level void ooze first, you get more bang for your buck early game, followed by bio-arcane. no need for caustic spittle, its useless, level it last. R>E>W>Q
Not sure if you'll see this or not, but as an avid Kog player (and possibly only owner of his butterfly costume) I'd like to hear anything else you have to say on him.


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ZestyJesty

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Your not the only one who owns the butterfly skin . i dont use it anymore now that i have his legendary, the bottle rocket sounds are too good to pass up, even though the wings and fail flying are amazing.

If i solo mid, i usually get boots and 3 hp pots.

If i get to solo mid against anyone other than kassadin or leblanc, i can probably outlane the enemy champ, i push vlads around like chumps, although i've only ever seen one vlad build that beat me, and i'm not going to disclose it so i wont have to deal with it ever again lol.

If you have mana regen runes, you can harass with void ooze whenever your near full mana. What i like to do at level 3 (sometimes level 2) is get into Bio-arcane range and hit the enemy champ and minions (usually killing at least two) with a void ooze, and popping bio-arcane barrage right when the void ooze hits, at this point your opponent has two options, with one of four out comes, based on whether or not you hit them squarely with void ooze.

1) you only hit them with void ooze slightly, only slowing them enough to hit them once or twice, at this point they will usually try to avoid you for long enough to continue laning and have less hp to show for it.

2) you only hit them with void ooze slightly, sometimes they get ballsy and either bumrush you or flash to you (or in vlads case pool to you, which you just walk away from with your boots and ms quints), at this point there are very few champs that can out dps you, if your afraid they might be able to kill you, then flash away and continue hitting them with your attacks until bio-arcane runs out, the results will usually be the same as number one.

3) you hit them squarely with void ooze, and they take three or more auto attacks. at this point they are probably very low, or if your having a hard time harassing, they'll probably be around half hp. From now on, your opponent will probably be wary of these shenanigans (if they are good), so it probably wont work a second time.

4) you hit them squarely with void ooze, and you kill them with bio-arcane barrage. One thing to think about is if an opponent flashes away with low enough hp to die in one hit, it may be worth your while to flash after them and get the kill (as long as you dont flash into tower range) especially if its first blood. killing your opponent, or forcing them to blue pill with minimal damage to yourself will give you a huge advantage against them when they return,

now once you hit level four or five try this tactic again, there are very few champs that can deal with this kind of harassment (especially if they blew flash or ghost to get away from the first assault), and once you hit level six, your harassment hits a new level of annoyance and complexity (assuming you can aim his ulti fairly well).

Now that i've described the basic strategy i use to keep pressure on enemy champs in the early levels. I'll describe one of my "mind games" with living-artillery in the laning phase. One thing i like to do is Shoot a living artillery immediately behind the enemy champ so that they have to move forward to avoid, while simultaneously moving into bio-arcane range. now if they dodge it by moving toward you, then you repeat the same strategy as before (viod ooze + bio-arcane), if they dodge by moving to a side, then just retreat and try again in six seconds. If they take the hit, then they take the hit, and you try again in six seconds. lol.

The laning phase is going to determine how the rest of the game is going to go for you, if you harass the enemy hard enough, then you'll be able to zone them somewhat and get the farm you need to dps like a monster in the late game, you may even be able to kill them a few times.

Itemization is a whole different post, if you want me to elaborate, let me know. but usually if i'm solo mid, and doing well against the enemy mid, or if they have a jungler the first time i go back i'll pick up two wards (one for each river bush on the sides).


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Greatrabe

Senior Member

05-05-2011

Theres only one thing kog'maw needs to be viable: His tank killing ability better than anyone else in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingmeister View Post
You know whats gona mess up your head even more?

That Malz makes a better ranged carry than Koggie since his base W deals 45% AoE HP damage (Kogies base W will do to a 36% to a single person (6%x6 hits)).
This guy clearly doesn't have a clue. Attack speed is NOT limited to one per second. The AP scaling may be the same, but madred's costs less than 400 AP so thats another advantage for Kog.

Late game, malz may have 700 AP and deal 16% for 5 sec, thats 80%! At the same time Kog has madred's, 200 AP and 2 attacks per second, he deals 12% an attack, thats 24% a second meaning 144% over 6 sec (120% in 5 sec). Sure they have MR, you have Void staff.



If your tank can hold up the enemy, Kog wrecks tanks and bruisers better than ANY OTHER champion in the game.


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Hqwxuz

Member

05-05-2011

Wait don't they need to stand in ur null void for it to do that much dmg??

Unless you count the ult but that has a long cool down. KogMaw can use his w every 17 seconds or so. Even less if you have cdr and it lasts 6 seconds.