Why Void Staff Sucks 98.8% of the time

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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-12-2010

MR and Armor cost about the same in game (15.5 per point) but characters have (on average) double the natural armor of their MR (77 vs 36).

Void staff costs 2295 (minus the value of its AP 1075, and mana 500) really costs 720. The physical equivalent, Last Whisper, costs 1965 (minus 1050 for the AS buff and 830 for the AD) really costs 85.

Last Whisper's 40% reduction is more valuable because armor figures are higher and therefore the reduction is greater. Void staff, on the other hand, sucks. It (really costs) over 8 times that of the Last Whisper. Furthermore, anyone suggesting getting it on top of Abyssal Scepter is really wasting money and needs their head checked since it basically turns it into 32% (100 MR) reduction against stacked heroes or 18% against noobs (36).

If the enemy stacks MR like it's their job or you have no other reduction/penetration (and you have a spamable ability) get it. Otherwise, forget it's in the menu.


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IHelpPro

Member

03-12-2010

Void staff is probably the second best Cost/Spell damage item in game, next to Mejai.

And if the enemy doesn't have merc tread, they're doing it wrong.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHelpPro View Post
Void staff is probably the second best Cost/Spell damage item in game, next to Mejai.

And if the enemy doesn't have merc tread, they're doing it wrong.
I will do math for you since you still don't understand.

Even if the enemy buys merc treads, they are averaging 66 MR @18. With a void staff, you paid 720 g for 26.4 pen. But if you bought the same amount of AP (33.5), you could do more damage (80 vs 71).

You have to have 175 MR before void staff is a better buy.

Void staff sucks. Stop contradicting me without a proper argument.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-12-2010

And another thing. If you don't stack a mejai's, it's probably the WORST value item you can buy.


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Amencorner

Senior Member

03-12-2010

Seeing as how most smart people buy Banshee's Veil and Merc Treads when facing AP casters, Void Staff is quite worth it. It's components are cheap, and it gives you incredibly solid MR reduction.

Also, your point about Mejai's is fairly moot, seeing as how you buy Mejai's for the sole purpose of stacking it, and if you fail at it, you already lost.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-12-2010

Quote:
Even if the enemy buys merc treads, they are averaging 66 MR @18. With a void staff, you paid 720 g for 26.4 pen. But if you bought the same amount of AP (33.5), you could do more damage (80 vs 71).
Your analysis is fundamentally flawed because of 3 points:

1. In games where your spell damage matters and it is your primarily damage output, and you are successful enough that this discussion is relevant, opponents will have approximately 100 MR (Merc, Banshee, base MR).

2. Mag Pen augments the entire damage of your spell -- both the base damage, and the AP bonus damage. You do not appear to have accounted for the base damage in your analysis, which comprises the majority of the spell damage, marginalizing the benefits of AP to a certain extent.

3. AP bonuses in terms of alternative cost is additionally reduced due to most spells in various situations having a <1.0 AP ratio.

So, as an example,

Assumptions: Base spell damage of 250. AP ratio of 0.8. Target with an MR of ~80. Base AP of 100. 28.5 flat magic pen (Sorc boots + MPen Marks). 15% magic pen (mastery).

Base damage: 330 minus whatever 39.5 MR does.

+Void staff: 386 minus whatever 7.5 MR does.

+70 AP + 33.5 AP: 413 minus whatever 39.5 MR does.


I'm guessing that reducing the enemy MR from 40 to 8 will make a much larger difference than increasing your base spell damage from 386 to 413, tbh.


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TonyOrtiz

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Senior Member

03-12-2010

Wow. This is a good piece of information. It's also nice to see it backed up by the numbers. Nice job.


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YellowSnowsicle

Senior Member

03-12-2010

OP should have done his research before posting.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

03-12-2010

Generally, magic penetration is better than AP on a point-by-point basis. There are a few exceptions, certainly (MPen doesn't help you heal or buff), but overall...

Granted, if you're amassing more than is required to reduce to 0, you should probably rework your build >.>


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TupacLives420

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Member

03-12-2010

On the other hand, Abyssal scepter actually IS much better than void staff, usually.


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