Why No One Should Ever Buy Crit DMG

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avens

Senior Member

03-05-2010

the solution is to buff them then.

Really don't know why riot nerfed crit.dmg runes about a month ago. Even back then they were worse than armor penetration and most runes.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Armor penetration's cheaper, too. <3.


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EnderA

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by avens View Post
the solution is to buff them then.

Really don't know why riot nerfed crit.dmg runes about a month ago. Even back then they were worse than armor penetration and most runes.
Agreed. Then at least they'll be situationally better. Or nerf the Armor Pen runes.


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zarthforums

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Armor penetration doesn't work so well is they have next to no armor. Aka if you're already getting black cleaver as your main build or have a armor reduction heavy skill.

So crit runes are still good on pantheon, ashe, trist, corki etc. Trynd is debatable, i never go cleaver for trynd anyways. The extra damage you get when the armor's at the low end's diminishing too.

Crit runes were good mainly on pirate (magical dmg on parrley) and shaco.

Nowadays, it's meh. If you don't have them already, I'd say armor pen's good. If you already have a full set of crits, just get a brutalizer and maybe cleaver.

Much harder to get crit dmg than armor pen with in game items too btw. Cleaver + brutalizer is only slightly more expensive than an IE for essentially -75armor on enemies after 5 attacks. Add a starks from the team to that and it's -100 armor. Fatal for most non armor stacking heros.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-05-2010

The problem with crit damage runes is that if they are efficient in any capacity that doesn't read "LATE GAME", then they are overpowered.

The entire theory behind the usability of crit damage centers around overwhelming burst. If such burst damage is plausible to execute (RED POTION LEVEL 1 SHACO), then it becomes overpowered.

If it is not plausible to execute, then it becomes a stat that is only relevant in the late game where you already have high base damage, ArPen, and crit chance.

With that in mind, and the fact that runes are things that affect the game from level 1, the obvious solution is to:

1. Buff crit damage runes to make them efficient at moderate crit, attack speed, arpen, and base damage levels (at 130 damage, 1.5 attack rate, 40 armor pen, and 35% crit chance, crit damage should have a measurable edge on other stats per rune slot).

2. Remove early-game autocrit capabilities (scale Deceive's crit chance bonus per rank for example).

Done.


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Morzas

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Armor penetration runes give you better sustained DPS, but critical damage increases your burst. If your team has a lot of CC to keep enemies pinned down (like those old-school Malphite/Amumu/Morgana/Carry/Carry teams), you want ArPen because you'll be getting in a lot of swings, they're not getting away. If you don't have that kind of team then you want more burst, cause every swing counts.

Still, it is a shame that critical damage has been nerfed so hard that the numbers are like this. I guess Riot should nerf armor penetration runes next.


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EnderA

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarthforums View Post
Armor penetration doesn't work so well is they have next to no armor. Aka if you're already getting black cleaver as your main build or have a armor reduction heavy skill.
Armor Penetration works best when they have exactly as much armor as you're penetrating. It scales down very slowly. 30 armor penetration is a 30% boost in damage at 30 armor, and a 15% boost in damage at 130 armor, and still a 10% boost in damage at 230 armor. Remember that Crit damage runes are overall half as effective as they seem. A 30% bonus to crit damage is actually a 15% overall bonus to damage on your crit, because a critical hit already does 200% damage.

Armor Penetration works great with Black Cleaver as long as they have somewhere around the amount that Black Cleaver is reducing plus your flat armor pen. So unless you have a black cleaver against an enemy team with less than, say, 75 armor, the armor penetration runes are still *great*. If you're going to get a starks, too, then around 100 armor, they're still great. If you're going armor ignoring crazy and have: Black Cleaver (with max stacks on the opponent), Starks Fervor (and they're in range of the aura), The Brutalizer, AND lots of Crit Chance and good attack speed against several opponents with less than 125 armor, either you're already completely dominating the game, or you managed to concoct a bizarre set of circumstances just to make crit damage runes better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarthforums View Post
So crit runes are still good on pantheon, ashe, trist, corki etc. Trynd is debatable, i never go cleaver for trynd anyways. The extra damage you get when the armor's at the low end's diminishing too.
No. Crit damage runes are not good on them. Pantheon's crit chance bonus is too situational, as is Ashe's, whereas Trist, Corki, etc. don't even have anything to boost their crit chance. And especially not Trynd, where both Crit Chance *and* Armor Penetration outshine Crit Damage. (See https://www.leagueoflegends.com/boar...318#post778318)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarthforums View Post
Crit runes were good mainly on pirate (magical dmg on parrley) and shaco.
They used to be decent on Shaco, and only situationally so. Never on Pirate, since he has no innate chance to crit. Either Magic Pen or Crit Chance for the old magic damage Pirate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarthforums View Post
Nowadays, it's meh. If you don't have them already, I'd say armor pen's good. If you already have a full set of crits, just get a brutalizer and maybe cleaver.
If you already have them, I'd start replacing them immediately, unless you lack a full set of tier 3 runes. Maybe keep them in case Riot buffs them later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarthforums View Post
Much harder to get crit dmg than armor pen with in game items too btw. Cleaver + brutalizer is only slightly more expensive than an IE for essentially -75armor on enemies after 5 attacks. Add a starks from the team to that and it's -100 armor. Fatal for most non armor stacking heros.
Just because it's harder to come by doesn't mean it's better. And I'll repeat, if you managed to get: Black Cleaver (with max stacks on the opponent), Starks Fervor (and they're in range of the aura), The Brutalizer, and lots of Crit Chance, and good attack speed against several opponents with less than 125 armor, either you're already completely dominating the game, or you managed to concoct a bizarre set of circumstances just to make crit damage runes better.


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EnderA

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzas View Post
Armor penetration runes give you better sustained DPS, but critical damage increases your burst. If your team has a lot of CC to keep enemies pinned down (like those old-school Malphite/Amumu/Morgana/Carry/Carry teams), you want ArPen because you'll be getting in a lot of swings, they're not getting away. If you don't have that kind of team then you want more burst, cause every swing counts.

Still, it is a shame that critical damage has been nerfed so hard that the numbers are like this. I guess Riot should nerf armor penetration runes next.
Armor Penetration increases your burst more than critical damage does.

Agreed, the numbers shouldn't be this lopsided.


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Morzas

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Armor penetration increases burst? How so? It gives you a flat amount of enhanced damage on every swing while critical damage makes the results of your attacks more unpredictable precisely because the enemy can't really know your true damage output, as it's randomized.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-05-2010

Quote:
It scales down very slowly. 30 armor penetration is a 30% boost in damage at 30 armor,
Actually, 30 arpen is a (100-70)/70 = 43% damage boost from your original expected damage, when the target has 30 armor.

Looking at it that way makes it more LULZ.

An equivalent amount of crit damage is what, like +10%, only on crits?

So much fail. A full set of crit damage runes on the rune page, to be efficient in terms of raw damage / DPS / stat allocation, needs to be around +50-60% damage imo.

ArPen should give a lesser flat DPS increase than crit damage. A "43%" boost is fine at level 1, due to the fact that that boost will decrease over the duration of the game (at higher armor levels it'll be like +30% damage boost).

Of course, Deceive with a +50% crit damage bonus from runes would be lolfail. But, that's what happens when you stack 78 types of effects at level 1, and back it up with a page full of randomly assorted stat buffs.