Clever Girl: Jungling as Akali

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Kalex Khan

Senior Member

02-04-2011

wonder if you can use a vampiric sceptor instead of armor which helps going towards gunblade later.

I'm probably going to start saving for the ruins described in this guide either way but i hate the idea of cloth armor on akali unless its simply unavoidable.


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Kalex Khan

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
I'm not looking for a total amount of regen though, you've been duped.

You can now swap out those nerfed runes, for other, more valuable runes, because your -base regen- was increased, alongside the nerf in the runes. So for almost all champs, it's 100% clearly superior to swap them out now, which renders the runes obsolete.

Don't get lured into looking at what you get if you take them, that's just the Riot propaganda line to make you comfortable with the big fat nerf we were handed. Look at what you gain if you trade them out. It's simply impossible now, to get a meaningful amount of regen -from the runes themselves- at the early levels where they make the most impact on the game.

You get rewarded with IP for playing the game, then you get punished with nerfs if you spend that IP wisely.
I disagree, i think you are trying to polarize it entirely too much. Why else would you equate it to "punishment" based on the facts that its changed otherwise? The seals are still a pretty good source of mana regen if you don't want to spend money in game to itemize for it, and you certainly won't find anything better from glyphs or marks. Therefore, certain characters who can't decide on anything more attractive to take from the seal pool might still want to use them. In my opinion, you either Jungle and take armor, take dodge, or you take the mana per 5. This hasn't changed much yet.


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ZXPrototype

Senior Member

02-04-2011

"Delayed Lizard Reverse Full Clear"- is definitely a skateboard trick.

Thanks for the exact routes, I've been jungling forever but have never had an exact route for what I want in a game, everything for me is done on the fly.

What do you prefer though, obviously someone who plays akali a lot, akali jungling or akali solo lane?
To me, while akali is a decent jungler, can do it just fine, she can do amazing in a lane and get farmed up way better. I would find a lvl 9akali with a completed rylais much more threatening than a lvl6 akali with jungle items.


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EverythingIsData

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedoncalpol View Post
Interceptor what spells do you take alongside smite?
Exhaust is the only one i can get the mastery for with your setup without losing archaic knowledge.
I don't worry about mastery synergy with my summoner spells, for the most part. What I pick for my #2 ability is situational:

- Flash: my standard pick. I like Flash better than Ghost, usually, since it has some more useful applications in terms of ganking and escaping. Doesn't bother me that I can't get the 15 second recast reduction mastery for it.
- Ignite: I will take this if my team is lacking the ability to wound/ignite on their own, just so that we don't get worked by Mundo/Fiddles/Vlad/whoever. It's still good for ganking, at any rate. I'll trade Archaic for Burning Embers if I do this, it's worth it.
- Cleanse: sometimes I go with this, if team comp demands it. It lets me avoid getting Merc Treads, and push more damage out with Sorc Shoes instead. Easy to get the 20 sec reduction, too.

I don't bother with anything else. I was not impressed with Exhaust when I used it. Clairvoyance needs the mastery to really be effective, so I let others do that. I kind of like Fortify on her in earlygame, because it not only gives me +9 damage against creeps but also gives me a way to protect a lane for a few seconds without actually being there... but I hate going into lategame with two summoner spells that don't do a whole lot of good, so I don't pick it often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
I'm not looking for a total amount of regen though, you've been duped. [...] You get rewarded with IP for playing the game, then you get punished with nerfs if you spend that IP wisely.
Well, aren't you just a Negative Nancy.

Clarity runes only dropped by about a third, it's not the end of the world. They still give you an edge in the laning phase, if you're a champ who uses mana. Which Akali isn't.


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Ebonclaw

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interceptor402 View Post
Clarity runes only dropped by about a third, it's not the end of the world. They still give you an edge in the laning phase, if you're a champ who uses mana. Which Akali isn't.
So much off topic. :P

Yes, they reduced them by 1/3. That means they had to be 50% more compelling than any competing rune, to still be better. As it is, depending on champ, it's very likely there are better choices.

You won't hurt so much for removing them, just like everyone else no longer hurts so bad for not buying them in the first place.

I wasn't trying to start a discussion of this, was just commenting that it's easy to buy a whole bunch of runes, then have entire sets get nerfed/balanced into a form you no longer want to use.


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Dai Tensai

Senior Member

02-05-2011

Great guide, but do you really need 5 points in utility?

What if you swap in an XP Quint to make that tree unnecessary, swap in an AP Mark to keep 20AP at level one, and then use the freed 5 points to max Brute Force to replace the mark and keep +10 bonus damage? Then you have 4 points more to spread around.

Here's a direct comparison, with numbers: max Harden Skin (2), Archaic Knowledge (1), max Offensive Mastery (1). Note that the last one affects abilities as well, adding two points of damage to Q (both hits) and E damage; my rune build loses 4.36 AP but her Q and E have .4 and .3 AP ratios, respectively, so that's 1.744 and 1.38 damage off each, more than offset by the extra two from Offensive Mastery. Offensive mastery will not carry over to champions, of course, but knocking 15% off of their MR with Archaic Knowledge will make up the difference. Assuming 30MR in a level 1 fight, it will take off 4.5 MR, which is good for a 3.5% increase in damage. 1.744 on a level 1 Q (86 dmg at 20AP) is only 2%. The downside is her E, for which the lost AP component was worth 5% at rank 1; Q+E is still two tenths of a point stronger single target even when both are rank 1.

Moving on to the lost bit of regen, Perserverance is 0.3 HP/5 at level 1, up to 0.75 at level 18. (According to leaguecraft, all other calculations I did myself.) The extra point off from maxed Harden Skin should compensate. Do you take more than .3 or .7 hits per five seconds when jungling? It's like having the regen up front...

tl:dr: Earlgy game you lose a fraction of a point of AoE champion damage but gain it single target. You lose a tiny, tiny bit of regen that you no longer need anymore because the incoming physical damage is reduced. You lose a reduction in death time (lol). You gain a scaling MR pen for late game. Also, you gain 0.75% more xp.

Edit: One last thing before I go to work: Don't test my modification out in the leaguecraft builder, it has the wrong values for runes and will not reflect the 20AP/10AD at level one.


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EverythingIsData

Senior Member

02-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dai Tensai View Post
Great guide, but do you really need 5 points in utility?
This is how I roll as well with my Akali: EXP Quint in order to recover the 5 points of Utility. Although I prefer to go one better, and give up Seals to remove the need for Brute Force altogether, allowing me to go 9/21/0. Tenacity at the bottom of the Defense tree is nice, and Ardor became much more useful when they upgraded it in .109 to give all of its benefit immediately.

I can't match Monte's speed in the jungle with this build, but I can come close (level 6 by 6:45), and it's also an excellent mastery/rune configuration for laning (just swap Smite for something else, no other adjustments required). It's really fun to just wade in a group of minions and have the melees hitting me for 4 damage. Also helps with tower-diving. Plus, it's nice to start with whatever item I please, since both passive effects are already activated from the start (so, Boots and 3 health pots are viable).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonclaw View Post
So much off topic. :P
If it bothers you that much, talk to the person who started the tangent by complaining about Clarity runes in the jungle thread of a manaless champion. I think that his name was "Ebonclaw".

At any rate, I think that the rune system is better now than it was before, since instead of one clearly obvious Seal choice followed by a half dozen inferior ones, there is now an argument for several different kinds of configurations, all of which are viable. Kind of like what we already have for Marks and Glyphs and Quints, no?


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AkitaNeru

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Senior Member

02-05-2011

I don't know if this route is possible with Mont's setup (since I'm running 9/21/0 with a Cloth Armor), but going Twin Golems->Wraiths->Wolves->Lizard allows for early, level 3 ganks and jungle invasions.

You will have no health pots going into the enemy jungle, though, and no Twilight Shroud, so it's a bit risky. Ganking, on the other hand, is pretty easy at this level.


While it does slow down your progress to level 6 by a bit (due to having to leave the jungle to gank, mostly), I've been running this path much more often to deal with overextended enemies in lanes and to get easier ganks on mid, as, generally speaking, the longer you wait on a mid gank, the harder it gets (Akali's ult does make it easier at 6 against some champs, but mids usually have escape summoner spells).


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Montegomery

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Senior Member

02-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalex Khan View Post
wonder if you can use a vampiric sceptor instead of armor which helps going towards gunblade later.

I'm probably going to start saving for the ruins described in this guide either way but i hate the idea of cloth armor on akali unless its simply unavoidable.
Get used to using Cloth Armor. Remember that you don't have to build it into anything if you don't like any of the options. The net loss of selling it is only 90g, a price I'm willing to pay for the extreme versatility and security it provides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXFlip View Post
"Delayed Lizard Reverse Full Clear"- is definitely a skateboard trick.

Thanks for the exact routes, I've been jungling forever but have never had an exact route for what I want in a game, everything for me is done on the fly.

What do you prefer though, obviously someone who plays akali a lot, akali jungling or akali solo lane?
To me, while akali is a decent jungler, can do it just fine, she can do amazing in a lane and get farmed up way better. I would find a lvl 9akali with a completed rylais much more threatening than a lvl6 akali with jungle items.
Sadly I'm changing the route names. There were too many nearly identical ones where the only difference was whether or not you recalled, so I consolidated them. I also took out the level 4/5 gank routes since they were actually identical to other routes or shorted versions of them.

The difference between laning and jungling isn't as large as you suppose. Jungle Akali hits level 6 at almost the exact same time as any solo lane and collects 724 gold while doing so. A solo lane could farm 1245 gold in that time with perfect last hits, but most players aren't that good. In any case, a laning Akali certainly wouldn't be level 9 with a Rylai's by that point unless the enemy team was intentionally feeding her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dai Tensai View Post
Great guide, but do you really need 5 points in utility?

What if you swap in an XP Quint to make that tree unnecessary, swap in an AP Mark to keep 20AP at level one, and then use the freed 5 points to max Brute Force to replace the mark and keep +10 bonus damage? Then you have 4 points more to spread around
The major reason utility is taken is for Awareness, so any way to circumvent that while maintaining both passives is perfectly viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkitaNeru View Post
I don't know if this route is possible with Mont's setup (since I'm running 9/21/0 with a Cloth Armor), but going Twin Golems->Wraiths->Wolves->Lizard allows for early, level 3 ganks and jungle invasions.

You will have no health pots going into the enemy jungle, though, and no Twilight Shroud, so it's a bit risky. Ganking, on the other hand, is pretty easy at this level.
It's possible, I don't know if I'd try and invade the jungle at that level. It depends on who the enemy jungler is and what route they're taking. Both invasion and ganking are very situational.


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AkitaNeru

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Senior Member

02-05-2011

Yeah, it's definitely dangerous to invade like that. I've only invaded once at level 3 with red, and it was only because I wanted to dive the other team's mid player, who was tower hugging at low health.

I'm very glad that Akali can change up her jungle path so easily to deal with most situations.