List of **** That Needs Buffed - Item Edition

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SlyGoat

Member

01-19-2010

This list is going to be harder than the list of Champions because items aren't talked about as much and someone will always argue their build with X item is totally ballin'.

Rylai's Crystal Scepter:

It might not be the worst item ever, but the AP bonus it gives is fairly modest compared to other similarly priced items, and the spell effect means that even most caster heroes would benefit more from a frozen mallet.

Honestly if I could make one change to this item I'd just make it a 35% slow regardless of whether the spell damage is single or multi target. And possibly put back the mechanic that let it work on non-damaging spells (i.e., placing a Time Bomb on an enemy would slow them before the bomb explodes.

However, a solution to make it even more unique from Frozen Mallet would be to make it a 20-25% slow on all magical damage, even continuous; so Teemo's poison would slow them through the entire duration, ditto Fiddlesticks' life drain, Singed's poison trail, Mundo's burning agony (AP MUNDO?!!?1?), Tristana's explosive shot, Nasus's spirit fire, etc. etc. This would open up a lot of build possibilities for a lot of heroes IMHO.

The real problem with this item isn't that it's very weak, it's that very few heroes can make use of it, and most of those would still make better use of Frozen Mallet.


Sunfire Cape:

Sunfire Cape stacking is infamous by now. It's either viable or it isn't depending on your hero and the enemy team. However, most people will agree that a single Sunfire Cape is basically worthless on the majority of heroes as the low damage is easily mitigated and ignored, and you're paying a pretty good chunk of cash for it (1,000 for the damage and what, 50 hp?). Hence I propose making it a UNIQUE Passive and increasing the damage to 40 every .5 seconds, or making it a UNIQUE Passive that deals 20 true damage (unmitigated) every .5 seconds.

An item that is only viable in very certain situations and only when stacked is a fairly bad design IMHO.

Either way I think making the damage tic every .5 seconds instead of per second would be an improvement.


Doran's Blade:


The lifesteal component was a pretty good idea that compensates slightly for the lack of regeneration. However, it's still a largely worthless item. Early game damage/lifesteal just isn't as valuable as early game regeneration (and a slight boost to AP/armor is never something to sneeze at). If Riot wants to stay on the theme they could try just increasing the lifesteal to 6% or so. I realize it's supposed to be balanced around cost-effectiveness, but a lifesteal/damage item that builds into nothing is less useful than a regeneration/AP or regeneration/armor item that builds into nothing, generally. So it either needs to be more cost effective to compensate or gain a new mechanic entirely.


Innervating Locket:


I'm not sure what to do with this. It's actually an okay item, it's just so completely niche it's only viable on 2 or 3 heroes (Alistar, Soraka, maybe Zilean). Giving it a support-oriented active cast would make it a great item for more heroes. Everyone misses Mekansm right? Maybe an AoE buff that increases armor/MR and restores mana/HP over time. Either as a replacement for the passive or a supplement to it.


Soul Shroud:

Again another completely niche item. It's alright on some heroes on its own (like... Zilean maybe), but is only really useful with a team structured around it (mostly push teams that rely heavily on auras). Making the aura global ranged would probably put it where it needs to be, and be a great boon to support heroes.


Leviathan:

Problem: This item is designed for tanks. Problem 2: This item functions on the principle that you should be getting a lot of kills and few deaths. Problem 3: Tanks get very little kills and a lot of deaths. Solution: Make the item 64 HP per charge, max of 10 charges, 1 charge per kill or assist. This'll buff it for tanks/support without making it that much easier for a DPS/caster to fully charge (since they'll be getting most of the killing blows). No reason all the snowball items have to have the same specifications.


Atma's Impaler:

Either needs the damage increased to 3% (or even 4%) to put it more on par with its inverse, Bloodrazor, or remove the UNIQUE part of the passive. This is just about a Sion-only item.


Frozen Heart:


What happened to the change to make the attack speed debuff multiplicative instead of additive?


Wit's End:

Burning the enemy's mana is cool. Killing them is better. Wit's end is good at the former, unfortunately almost every other physical damage item is better at the latter. Increasing the amount of mana burned might be good enough, but the item in general doesn't seem incredibly useful; the targets who are really mana dependent would take too many hits to drain, tanks blow all their spells at the start of a fight and it's usually over before their cooldowns are, etc.


Warden's Mail:

Make it a 100% chance on being hit. I never understood why it was 20% in the first place. Other than that it's an alright item.


Quicksilver Sash:

Remember that brief period when Cleanse made you immune to debuffs for 2 seconds and teams other than stacked CC were viable? Let's bring that back in the forum of Quicksilver Sash. It's already overpriced and has a long cooldown. A brief debuff immunity would make it a good buy against CC teams. Since it was added I can count the times I've seen this item purchased on one hand.


Sword of the Divine:


This item is the definition of niche. It isn't terrible, but it's only worth buying over another (and cheaper) item like Last Whisper or Malady in a few situations. Making the effect proc every 3 attacks instead of every 4 might be enough of a buff. I've never seen this item used except against Jax. So, alternately, rename it to Sword of Jax Slaying.


Sword of the Occult:


The crit damage is good, the damage is bad. I was under the assumption that snowball items were meant to be useful for all heroes of a certain subtype (casters, tanks, DPS), while this is only good if you build your character around critting. Making it damage + armor penetration per charge would be much better, and making the full stack effect increased crit damage (30%?) could work.


Spirit's Visage:


Again, what happened to the increased healing received?


Thornmail:

Reduce it to 20% damage returned and make it return true (unmitigated) damage.


Boots of Swiftness:

Increase the speed by about 10. Or rename them Boots of Singed since I never see them on anyone else.


Guinsoo's Rageblade:

I have no idea what can be done with this item. It's such a gimmick I almost think it was intended to have no real purpose.


Brutalizer:

This item was good when it was released. The glitchy with Kayle and the stacking 4 of them made it a unique passive. Increasing the armor penetration to 20 (on par with Guise/sorc boots) would be a good start. I see this item sometimes, but it's very infrequent. This could also be because physical damage scales better through items than magical damage, so armor penetration is less valuable than magic penetration. Keeping that in mind, maybe even 25 armor penetration wouldn't be overkill.


Nashor's Tooth:


This is a weird item. I see it purchased sometimes, but it doesn't seem to fit the builds of any hero very well. It's like rageblade but less bad.


Abyssal Scepter:

Bump the AP from 70 to 80 and bump the aura from -20 MR to -25 MR (on par with Stark's). If I ever see this item it's usually the last item in a build, mostly stuck in as an afterthought. With the rise of magic penetration items the aura has lost a lot of its value.


Tiamat:

Go the Battlefury route; pump up the damage until it's the most cost effective source of damage in the game by a fairly large margin. It'd still lose out to items like Infinity Edge and Black Cleaver which give more than pure damage, but it'd have a better niche than ****py splash. Maybe make the splash radius significantly larger so it can actually hit multiple people in a fight.


Afterthought - Guardian Angel:


The % of HP you regain on revival was nerfed previously, and with the rise of healing reduction you're usually coming back with 20% HP. Make the revival not effected by healing reduction, because otherwise this item becomes a waste of gold when it's so easily countered. Good item if nobody has the mind to buy Executioner's, though. (P.S. do the same thing with Zilean's ult, seriously)


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Kajax

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Senior Member

01-19-2010

I thoroughly agree. Thank you for making this.

You listed many items so I won't respond to all of them.

Sword of the Occult - I agree, I think this Snowball should be more applicable to more than just 2 champions (Gangplank, Shaco). Although, you have to be careful when giving Physical DPS a snowball item, they are already the most snowbally group. Damage seems logical but they would have to use smaller numbers than you suggested.

Tiamat - I agree, I like the premise a lot but it doesn't function yet. The items that make it seem random and not helpful enough for it's cost. I think it needs an item prerequisite remake and a lot more splash.

Atma's Impaler - This item is never something players really intentionally get unless you're maybe Mundo. Would definitely like to see it buffed.

Quicksilver Sash - I have yet to see this on anyone. I plan on never getting it myself. I agree with your suggestions.

Thornmail - I would like to see some hard numbers to really get a glimpse of how balanced it is. I'm guessing it's pretty UP.

Sword of the Divine - Lol it truly is Jax Slayer. Almost exclusively that. I like the premise but I think it also needs work.


In summary: I agree. Well done.


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Fallen 62

Senior Member

01-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
Quicksilver Sash:

Remember that brief period when Cleanse made you immune to debuffs for 2 seconds and teams other than stacked CC were viable? Let's bring that back in the forum of Quicksilver Sash. It's already overpriced and has a long cooldown. A brief debuff immunity would make it a good buy against CC teams. Since it was added I can count the times I've seen this item purchased on one hand.
You so bought that last night! :P

Anyway, I pretty much agree with everything that Sly said. Some of the items are too Champ/role specific to do much of anything, and I think that some items should have a "global" aura (though global Starks prolly wouldn't be the best of ideas ). I'd keep typing, but I would just be repeating everything he said, so...


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WarMammoth

Senior Member

01-19-2010

My opinions:

Most of this is right, so I am just covering what I do NOT agree with, assume I agree with you on all other points-

Frozen Heart is good on tanks who want mana (Blitzcrankkkkkk), actually it's just not that bad, but you have to be aware that multiples on your team is a huge waste.

Warden's Mail is pretty good because it's not very expensive at all, but only against certain teams.

Leviathan, there is something wrong with but I think it should grow in a different way entirely than kills and assists. For instance, it could get charges for total damage you have "absorbed" for the team from opposing champions, or it could get buffs when your teammates get kills rather than when you do, or some other idea that pushes it into a role where you'd actually want it. It'd be scary to just buff it, because then it's way too good on carries.

And yeah, Nashor's Tooth is only good on, like, AP Cho'gath if you really want cooldown reduction from something other than Deathfire. It doesn't match, attack speed just doesn't "fit" with AP.

Also, I want a recipe to combine Tiamat and Sword of the Divine into an item that does a big magic splash every few attacks. That'd be sweet.


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SlyGoat

Member

01-19-2010

Frozen Heart and Warden's Mail are fine. But Frozen Heart was supposed to be changed to multiplicative attack speed rather than additive (AKA useful instead of just negating the enemy's berserker greaves), and Warden's Mail being a % to effect on being hit is just silly.

Like I said with Leviathan, carries get a lot of killing blows, so making kills and assists worth the same amount of charges wouldn't really effect them.


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WarMammoth

Senior Member

01-19-2010

Yeah, what I really meant was that you could buff the other aspects of Leviathan somehow, if you could change the accumulation mechanism to something that other champions got which carries didn't get as much of. I'm just not sure exactly what that is.


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meatwagon

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Member

01-19-2010

I would love to see Innervating Locket turned into an activated support item, it would fit into a lot more builds that way. Lots of great suggestions, I gave it a +1


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Thinkaman

Senior Member

01-19-2010

While I don't agree with many of these and think some of the changes would induce problems, the Leviathan idea is spot-on.


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Cyatomorrow

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Senior Member

01-19-2010

I can agree with most of these.

One issue: Wit's End.

You claim that the damage is weak, but the mana burn also does damage to the enemy hero equal to the mana lost. In other words, Wit's end adds 42 damage, as well as the magic resist and attack speed.


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Dracorya

Senior Member

01-19-2010

I find Nashor's Tooth works really well on Taric, since he recovers mana as he attacks plus everything else supports him fairly well.

I would want to see Wit's End change, the mana drain it does is rather pathetic and you are correct in that it would take forever for a person with it to wittle at a caster's mana enough to make a difference. But I understand probably the reason why they won't increase it to be similar to lifesteal that it would be rather op for a melee carry to be able to drain a percentage of their target's hp+mana.

Doran's Blade is iffy for me, people keep saying its a great starter item and I have seen it a lot on Teemos (who I'm currently maining). But I find it hard to justify buying an item that doesn't build into anything while I can get vamp specter which has more lifesteal AND can build into better things.