Where are the Healers?

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Delite

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Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayuki View Post
Edit 2: On a side note, any idea how much ap/mana it would take for Soraka to do that sweet ass +1000 heal? >.>
Prolly like 10x longer than it would take me to buy an executioners calling and make that +1000 to +500.


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Nayuki

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delite View Post
Prolly like 10x longer than it would take me to buy an executioners calling and make that +1000 to +500.
We all know executioners/ignite is totally ****ed currently and more or less is negating almost entirely the purpose of even having healer type heroes. No one item (let alone a cheap item) should be that overpoweringly capable of completely shutting down an entire facate of the game. Sure, got nerfed down to 50% from 65% but is still way to good. As I'v said before, I want my nice "nerf physical damage by 50% for 12s/nerf spell damage by 50% for 12s" items nao please


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Krosan

Senior Member

01-16-2010

Eh. If there were very strong healers, you, as was mentioned, create a dependency on them. I never liked dealing with the healers in DOTA ROC because you were completely boned without one.

It's the same with characters who get boosted to insane status in the metagame. People were complaining before the patch (and maybe now? I haven't been on much) because for a lot of people, Yi dominated the metagame. Maybe not at the highest levels, I don't know. But for a lot of folks, you saw match after match where you had Yi on both teams and you spent a good bit of time planning how to take him out. No one character should dominate the metagame to a point where you see one on both teams in a huge proportion of matches, and if you had a truly strong healer, you might wind up with that.

As it stands, the support heroes are good. I unlocked Janna the other day and love her; those people who complain she's useless apparently don't understand the purpose of a support hero, because I play a lot of support and I'm enjoying her a lot more than Soraka.

Soraka has a team heal, a burst heal with an armor buff, and a mana heal. Infuse by itself is an awesome ability. She's not making any kills on her own, but she can add a good bit to the team's survivability.

Zilean is kind of weak overall, but even then, he brings a lot to the table. Dropping timewarps on fleeing enemies or allies, chronoshifting the carry if they get focused... and let's not forget, it may not be truly epic, but time bomb is still a pretty nasty health hit if he's got enough AP.

Janna's spells don't scale all that well with AP... but she's got the complete support package. She's got a nuke that does acceptable damage with a sickening range; that by itself is a raised middle finger to anyone who tries tower-hugging while injured, because she can flatten you from outside the tower's range if she wants. I don't know if there's ANY hero better than her at covering retreats except maybe Alistair. She's got a damage shield spell that also buffs damage. Her ult is unimpressive, but that doesn't mean it's not useful; the fact that it isn't the greatest heal in the game doesn't matter so much next to the fact that in addition to a heal, it takes several different uses, ranging from "well, we're a bit banged up from taking down that tower, let's heal so we can keep the momentum going" to "oh ****, someone's beating on the carry, better punt them so we don't lose the DPS!"

Supports are awesome as it is within the frame of the game's current balance if played well. Balancing them is a really tricky rope to walk, because if you buff a support too much, it's not that champion you risk breaking, it's every other champion. If you had a really powerful purpose-built healer, for instance, suddenly your physical DPS doesn't have to bother with lifesteal or anything, because they just have to stick with the healer and they're nigh-invincible anyway.

I suppose you run into the same problem there that you had with Yi prenerf. As I understand it, the problem was that his ult's multiplicative effect meant he didn't need all that much AS to hit the cap, so he could stack a lot more damage than he otherwise could have (or can now). That's the effect of a support hero; by covering those holes, the real damagedealer doesn't have to spend money or item slots on them himself and can focus on buying additional face-destruction gear.


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Knote

Senior Member

01-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pylat View Post
@noth

I only played soraka, taric and alistar, and out of those, id say soraka only vaguely qualifies for the healer role.

alistars heal is a soft heal, you can compare it to juggernauts healing ward.
tarics heal is a joke, like omniknight, only it does not do damage.

As i understand it, the best way to ensure survival of your team, is to stack mass HP and armor on your tank, and hope you destroy the enemy team in the team fight before you collapse.

I just want a skill that can "save" a champion that is getting focused down in these fights. with the current balance, 300(+1) health just dont cut it.

Something like protective spirit, healing hands or spirit bond (guildwars) would be a welcomed addition.
- A skill that caps the amount of damage you can take per second for a short period of time (fx, you can only take 5% of your max health in damage each second for 5 seconds.)
- for the next 10 seconds, whenever a source deals damage to target, target get healed for XX.
- for the next 10 seconds, whenever target take more than 100 damage from a single source, target is healed for 150.
I am so happy to meet someone else who thinks the same thing. You have no idea howmuch I've wanted games to have more prominent/viable healing like Guild Wars, the creativity in the abilities was just amazing.

I was so unhappy with healing WAR online and used the same arguments comparing it to GW healing. =/

Its pretty much the same here, crazy burst dmg. Tanks are'nt really tanks, they're really just ... burst tanks I guess. You initiate, distract, etc. Healers are only really for maintaining a lane, being a portable fountain, or maybe some burst healing but it not going to have the greatest impact. Even on Soraka with a juiced up ult + summoner heal + normal heal only goes so far when people do SO much dmg.

If i heal for 2k for that combo, that's all I got, but if people can easily nuke for 1k per spell on certain heroes stacking AP, or physical carries just pumping out ******ed dps (Yi/Twitch etc) it's only a very temporary impact.

I'm not saying it won't save people sometimes or make a fight, but it's not insane. Throw in healing debuffs in there.. and its like WAR again. =D

If you wanna save people CC is great.


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Xocolatl

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Senior Member

01-16-2010

Taric has a stun, which makes him somewhat superior to Soraka in some situation. He also buffs other carries with damage too. But I still prefer Soraka because she at least looks decent. Taric's face and armor are severely underpowered.

Also, you forgot Morgana and Janna--their armor are basically the same thing as heal. EotS also heal. And AP Alistair can heal for some pretty **** good amount, although he'd only be good as a pusher with that build.

Even a few hundred HP means a world of difference in this game if used properly. With proper CD reduction, that adds up to possibly 8-900 HP in a fight without EC. Even with EC, 400 HP is a tenth of your HP if you're Singe, or a quarter of your HP for some Carries. Say what you will, but that definitely makes all the difference in the world.


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Delite

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01-16-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xocolatl View Post
Even a few hundred HP means a world of difference in this game if used properly. With proper CD reduction, that adds up to possibly 8-900 HP in a fight without EC. Even with EC, 400 HP is a tenth of your HP if you're Singe, or a quarter of your HP for some Carries. Say what you will, but that definitely makes all the difference in the world.
I'll admit that once in a blue moon a "few hundred hp" can save you, but that's mostly early game. Late game I definitely don't see it as "all the difference in the world".

Personally I try not to think of it as how much is the heal going to hit me for, rather how much longer is it going to help me live. End game, most carries white hit....yes white hit for a little less than 1K(hell even an AD Malaphite/Janna hit for that). So whether it be 400 or 900, you've increased your life an extra second or less ( depending on attack speed ).

AND

That's assuming 1 person, in a 5v5, you have how much more damage piling in as well? It's definitely just my opinion, but I'm not seeing the value in Soraka atm with the exception of when the other team is too cheap to buy an Executioners Calling other than being a mana battery and pissing off Karthas.


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