Mundo as a Tank

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SlyGoat

Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotsnik View Post
long post
nah, sorry. i like mundo, he's really fun to play, but he's pretty much ****. if you're against a serious tryhard team with a tank that isn't ****, you will fail and your team will lose because of it.

mundo would be cool and i'd play him a lot (something like a 60/40 split between singed and him), if the game's balance wasn't a horrible joke.


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Grotsnik

Senior Member

01-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyGoat View Post
Short post
I don't believe I ever mentioned Mundo to good or even fill the primary tank position. Simply, the community constantly misunderstanding his role. I love him to death, but I agree with you. He's ****.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

01-06-2010
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Mundo is not a very good "Tank" in high level play. His kit includes a self-buff for damage and a self-buff for movement speed, making him very receptive to Attack Speed, and Critical Strike. The rest of him also lets you chase (-CC, slowing skillshot). He does need durability, I'll admit to that, but his primary build seems centered around Stark's. Try him as a melee DPS (not Yi style, though) and see how you like it.


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AmPriS

Senior Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Mundo is not a very good "Tank" in high level play. His kit includes a self-buff for damage and a self-buff for movement speed, making him very receptive to Attack Speed, and Critical Strike. The rest of him also lets you chase (-CC, slowing skillshot). He does need durability, I'll admit to that, but his primary build seems centered around Stark's. Try him as a melee DPS (not Yi style, though) and see how you like it.
Mundo is not receptive to attack speed because he has a rather low base attack speed. Since attack speed items are a percentage and they modify the base attack speed the gains he receives from it are quite small compared to other 'melee dps' heroes.


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Hedgepig

Senior Member

01-06-2010

I used to play mundo by rushing warmogs and early ranks in burning agony to farm up creeps for more warmogs. This is ok, but you are really fighting the curve, and your ult cant keep you alive vs a whole team like Alistar or Rammus can.
Recently I've been playing as dps again with Zeal/Phantom dancer, a mallet, perhaps a starks (I prefer the Phantom dancer first to up the crit chance early). Its way more fun, contributes more to your lane early on, and he isnt super squishy even so. Use the ult as an out of combat regen or an in-combat move speed boost, take Exhaust, and crush carries from level 1-11.
You provide slows, chasing, a decent counter to tanks late game and carries early game, and are a good "second man in" during team fights.


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Abysm

Junior Member

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
Mundo is not a very good "Tank" in high level play. His kit includes a self-buff for damage and a self-buff for movement speed, making him very receptive to Attack Speed, and Critical Strike. The rest of him also lets you chase (-CC, slowing skillshot). He does need durability, I'll admit to that, but his primary build seems centered around Stark's. Try him as a melee DPS (not Yi style, though) and see how you like it.
What is the item build like for the Stark's focus? I am curious to give it a try.


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

01-06-2010
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abysm View Post
What is the item build like for the Stark's focus? I am curious to give it a try.
I can't say I paid really close attention to Roku's build, but it was something like Stark's, Sword of the Occult, Infinity Edge, and a lot of Elixir usage. Overall that should give you close to 50% crit, huge damage per swing, and a reasonable attack speed.

Also for what it's worth, while you are somewhat correct to say "Attack Speed sucks, his base attack rate is bad," remember that what AS modifiers really do is just multiply your DPS with diminishing returns on more +AS.


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Hedgepig

Senior Member

01-06-2010

In general, an hero with a flat damage boost to their attacks benefits from at least some +AS items. Determining your final dps is a factoring problem. If your two axis are Damage and Attack Rate, your dps is Damage * Attack rate. Champs with high damage benefit from increases to attack rate, while champs with high attack rate benefit from increases to damage.

For instance:
If the default champ attacks 1 times a second for 1 damage, he does 1 dps.

If you can buy items that increase his Speed or his Damage by 500%, you can do the following:

A champ that attacks 5 times a second for 1 damage each does 5 damage a second.
A champ that attacks 1 times a second for 5 damage each does 5 damage a second.
But if you split that into two 250% bonuses
A champ that attacks 2.5 times a second for 2.5 damage does 6.25 damage a second.

When looking at an increease in dps you need to consider the % effect on total damage or on total attack speed. 50 damage when you have only 50 is an 100% increase. 50 attack speed when you have 200 is only a 25% increase.

Champs that have a high boost to damage for free (mundo, chogath, Yi, etc) can add significantly to attack speed before a damage item becomes more cost effective. The actual point can be figured out with some algebra on a per champ/build basis, but often an estimate will do just fine.

This is what I think Phreak means when he mentions diminishing returns. (Correect me if I'm wrong? Attack speed is additive, yes?) Really, each attack speed item adds the same amount of DPS, which is a smaller % of your overall dps with each item., You might add more overall DPS by increasing some other aspect of your champions attack.


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Rokudan

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The Council

01-06-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I can't say I paid really close attention to Roku's build, but it was something like Stark's, Sword of the Occult, Infinity Edge, and a lot of Elixir usage. Overall that should give you close to 50% crit, huge damage per swing, and a reasonable attack speed.

Also for what it's worth, while you are somewhat correct to say "Attack Speed sucks, his base attack rate is bad," remember that what AS modifiers really do is just multiply your DPS with diminishing returns on more +AS.
<3 :P

Starks is the main thing. Usually what I go after that depends on who I'm facing. You can go a bloodrazor and be an AMAZING anti-tank if your opponents are tanky, or you can go SotO + IE and just pump out damage. You can two shot people and lifesteal for a ton of regen. On top of merc treads + burning agony you're really hard to cc and you move fast two shotting people, he's an amazing dps carry.

Alternatively, if someone else on your team is going starks, you can just go an executioner's calling in its place. You lose some attack speed but still hit hard.


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Hedgepig

Senior Member

01-06-2010

How do you feel about Phantom Dancer, Roku? Its significantly more pricey, but gives all that lovely crit and move and dodge, all of which I feel are useful. I'm always executioners calling'ed these days, so I fear for the viability of my lifesteal.