The new Sivir (guide)

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MemoryLapse

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Its not a strictly terrible build, its just another typical glass cannon build.

Glass Cannons are bad in the current meta IMHO.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Hey man y dont u just maek 5 bloodthrister * last whisper ftw ftw
if u run early enuf u dont need boots 2


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rawpower405

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Several things I'd like to add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijaya View Post
The new Sivir

Damage per level reds
Dodge yellows
Mana regen blues
Health quints
Damage per level reds is really good. Its even better with Damage per level quints. Trust me. With reds/Quints you're at +37 AD at level 18. Quite nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijaya View Post
The new Sivir
For masteries, go 21/9/0 if you have faith in your ability to stay alive, or 9/21/0 if you don't. Defense needs Nimbleness to go with your passive and dodge runes, but going a full 21 points will allow Sivir to hold her own against most other AD carries until she gets her basic set-up rolling. I usually go 21/9/0, however, since it's very easy to play conservatively and last hit with BB, and you're end-game DPS will be higher.
The 21 in offense are bad for Sivir. You have to spend 6 mastery points on masteries that are not very useful on Sivir (the ones for crit). If you don't spend it on those 6, there just aren't enough masteries that are worth it to spend your precious points on.

Conversely, Awareness (experience gain), Meditation (mana regen), and Quickness (move speed) in the Utility tree are all fantastic on Sivir. The Utility tree has no "wasted" masteries for Sivir while the Offensive tree does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijaya View Post
The new Sivir
If you're getting focused in team fights, get a Banshee's Veil, which stacks with Manamune for an extra 32 damage.
No. Banshee's gives 400 mana. 2% of 400 is 8 AD. So a Banshees gives 8 attack damage.

Other than that, good job. Personally I would grab another defensive item, but that's just me.


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Elyk Draw

Member

12-08-2010

I think Sivir is my most-played champ overall, and I'd just like to suggest a few things:

1. Masteries:

Strength of Spirit > Dodge+Nimbleness when you are building Tear/Manamune (even on Sivir). 2% more dodge is...well nothing compared to what you are already getting from passive+runes. Also, knowing how some other stats work, I doubt dodge from runes/mastery/passive adds directly (it could though).

The mana regen in the utility tree will shore up any mana problems you have with Tear compared to Chalice and get you going earlier. As I'm sure you know, "getting going earlier" is the most important "stat" for Sivir.

My mastery setup: 11-9-10

Attack speed and armor pen in offense
Armor/MR/SOS in defense
Tele/Ghost/2 in regen/experience gain/mana regen in utility

The only "wasted" ones here are the first four in the offensive tree (3 in crit % and 1 in ap/lvl). If I went all the way through any of the trees, it would be utility.

2. Laning
You may be expecting people to have read QUICKSLIDE's stuff, but mentioning jungling creeping from mid is important. Your wraiths, their wraiths, and your wolves.

3. Summoner spells
Tele/Ghost over Tele/Flash. Ghost is far superior to flash with a split push strat, especially with a veil in the build. Just don't use ghost/ult at the same time if you don't absolutely have to. Flash is an "oh ****" repositioning skill. If you're all alone in a lane, a ghost will always catch a flash.

4. Manamune/Mogs/Atma/Veil works, but only if you have mid and are farming well. It has to be completely built to be effective (except veil), and the earlier you complete it, the more it stomps.

Other than that, thanks for the guide on the new siv.


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Vijaya

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawpower405 View Post
Damage per level reds is really good. Its even better with Damage per level quints. Trust me. With reds/Quints you're at +37 AD at level 18. Quite nice.
I've actually got that listed under alternative quints, although I only put "damage." I'll change it to "damage per level."

Quote:
The 21 in offense are bad for Sivir. You have to spend 6 mastery points on masteries that are not very useful on Sivir (the ones for crit). If you don't spend it on those 6, there just aren't enough masteries that are worth it to spend your precious points on.
Not very useful, but my final build recommends Ghostblade and elixers. The crit chance you get from those two items makes the crit chance runs a little better.

Quote:
Conversely, Awareness (experience gain), Meditation (mana regen), and Quickness (move speed) in the Utility tree are all fantastic on Sivir. The Utility tree has no "wasted" masteries for Sivir while the Offensive tree does.
The bonus mana pool can also be helpful if you plan on grabbing Manamune and Banshee's. I have played with this, and it does work rather well, however, I still like having my offensive abilities ramped up a little. I added a suggestion to go 21/9/0 or 0/9/21, since I believe both are effective and it should be personal choice as to what you take.

Quote:
No. Banshee's gives 400 mana. 2% of 400 is 8 AD. So a Banshees gives 8 attack damage.
Holy math fail. Thanks for pointing that out, changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elyk Draw View Post
1. Masteries:

Strength of Spirit > Dodge+Nimbleness when you are building Tear/Manamune (even on Sivir). 2% more dodge is...well nothing compared to what you are already getting from passive+runes. Also, knowing how some other stats work, I doubt dodge from runes/mastery/passive adds directly (it could though).
You're absolutely right, 2% dodge is fairly weak after everything else I have AND dodge does not add evenly (it decreases depending on how much you already have).

But 10% movespeed is HUGE, especially when you consider how little you get from your other buffs.

Quote:
The mana regen in the utility tree will shore up any mana problems you have with Tear compared to Chalice and get you going earlier. As I'm sure you know, "getting going earlier" is the most important "stat" for Sivir.
Absolutely. I'm actually gonna add this to the guide.

Quote:
My mastery setup: 11-9-10

Attack speed and armor pen in offense
Armor/MR/SOS in defense
Tele/Ghost/2 in regen/experience gain/mana regen in utility

The only "wasted" ones here are the first four in the offensive tree (3 in crit % and 1 in ap/lvl). If I went all the way through any of the trees, it would be utility.
I can see this working, but I can't help feeling like your missing out on the 5% bonus damage or the awesome reduction to summoner spell CDs. Teleport with 15% off is amazing.

Quote:
2. Laning
You may be expecting people to have read QUICKSLIDE's stuff, but mentioning jungling creeping from mid is important. Your wraiths, their wraiths, and your wolves.
Good call. Added.

Quote:
3. Summoner spells
Tele/Ghost over Tele/Flash. Ghost is far superior to flash with a split push strat, especially with a veil in the build. Just don't use ghost/ult at the same time if you don't absolutely have to. Flash is an "oh ****" repositioning skill. If you're all alone in a lane, a ghost will always catch a flash.
Flash is exactly that, an "oh ****" repositioning skill. With Sivir's buffed damage, she can team fight fairly well. Flash also gives a better early game, since you can repeatedly push the enemy up to their tower and whittle it down hit by hit and still have Flash to save you from a gank.

With that said, if you're going to be focusing on pushing, Ghost is a much better ability. I've upgraded my post to go into more detail about what each ability brings and when you should take each one.

Quote:
4. Manamune/Mogs/Atma/Veil works, but only if you have mid and are farming well. It has to be completely built to be effective (except veil), and the earlier you complete it, the more it stomps.
By the same token, the sooner you get your Bloodthirster the more you'll stomp. I've added some of my thoughts on why I don't play with this build to the bottom of the second post.

Thanks for all of the positive comments everyone!


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oddparent1

Senior Member

12-24-2010

I just tried your guide, and we were at a tiny disadvantage in 3v5, but then won 3v4.


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Adc Feed GG

Junior Member

01-19-2011

I just tried your guide out. Worked fairly well. Their team had a ****** for me early game but I repaid their kindness with destruction of their base.

At the end of my items though instead of going for a 2nd Bloodthirster or BV, I went Phantom Dancer and it worked rather wonderfully. Put me at 433 movement w/ berserker's greaves. The game went on a bit long and team fights were about even but I would back out of the 5v5 and teleport to other lanes w/ creeps pushed up and push in their base towers and inhibs before their team could break away from mine and respond. The attack speed, movement and crit on the PD helped out a lot. Crit was useful as well.

I did 21/9/0 I skipped lethality by maxing out Alacrity Sunder and Brute force and putting one point in offensive mastery.

My score wasn't that great. 5/9/8. One of the deaths was when i pushed in an inhib solo and dove into their fountain to deny their kill. The rest were teamfights and ganks from when I pushed in path towers. I was able to keep multiple heroes of theirs stuck to a path because I would destroy their creep wave in 2 seconds.

My overall damage dealt was 322k, my buildings killed were 9. And i had 367 minions slain. I finished the game when they tried to push mid in and i pushed top in, both main base towers and nexus in one fel swoop before any of them could respond.

Edit: I also had armor pen marks instead of the AD/lvl since I don't own and AD/lvl atm.


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Subdue

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Senior Member

01-19-2011

Just a few points:

- Manamune is inferior to Chalice at just about any point in the game where mana is a concern for you. Grabbing Chalice instead let's you play more liberally with your Boomerangs and Ricochets, where as grabbing Tears changes little from the Meki Pendant you had before it. It's not even until you get Manamune (1000 gold later) that you can start charging it seriously.

- Attack Speed runes are better than Attack Damage/Level runes because they address a more difficult to itemize modifier - Attack Speed. The only two attack speed items that don't have any wasted modifiers for Sivir are Berserker Greaves and Stark's Fervor, and even then, Stark's Fervor is overshadowed by the cheaper and more effective Last Whisper in terms of armor penetration, so really there's only Berserker Greaves. Grabbing Attack Speed Marks and Quintessences puts you at 1.6 attack speed at level 18, 2.3 when your ultimate is active.

- The offensive tree is pretty useless for Sivir, as there are so many wasted mastery points. The defensive tree, which you recommend against, on the other hand, is filled with useful points for her. 0/21/9 is by far the more efficient way to go, especially since her early game range is so low compared to other squishy carries.

- Ghost Blade is pretty useless on Sivir. You've already get an AS boost in your ult that lasts significantly longer, you have no use for critical strike chance and by the time you get it the bulk of your damage will be from Ricochet, which has no cool down.

I've pretty much gone through most of this in laborious detail in the guide I recently posted. You can read it here: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=451002


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