[Guide] Femme Fatale: Ashe the Frost Archer

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Klazzix

Senior Member

12-28-2009

Man, you'd still be critting cause that's Ashe's passive, so yeah gotta get IE.

And you really need a starting item to be honest, anything that gives HP / Regen / Armor since at the start it's all about auto attacks or you'll end up being the first blood for sure.


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darkarsenic

Junior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
But, I do run in with no items. The key is to simply just not get hit. It sounds really dumb, but hey, its possible. With the new change where things get an orange outline when they're targeting you, it's very very easy to tell when you're about to get attacked. The only problem I have is against Sivir (**** those bouncing blades!).


Third Paragraph: By taking away Flash, you get rid of Ashe's only escape skill. Volley does a certain amount, but can only go so far. And yes, it does take away turret shots, and other projectiles. Go test it. Run into a turret's range, let it shoot at you, and Flash away. If you can't manage that, you're too slow. Ignite has the same problem Exhaust does - the range on it is smaller than your auto attack range. You have to run in to use it, which means you're closer to the enemy, and if they are melee, gives them a better shot at you; if they're ranged, it gives you a longer, and harder, time to escape.
alas, but some characters don't need to target you to "hit" you, nunu, malphite, kassassdin, veigar, blitzcrank, morgana, shaco, tryndamere, sivir, heimer, anivia, ryze, amumu, cho'gath, mundo, gangplank, fiddlesticks, teemo, kayle, annie, tristana, jax, yi, corki, alistar, soraka, sion, taric, janna, zilean, TF, and karthus can all hit you with a skillshot, or just toss something at you to damage you, and its either thosecharacters can spam their abilities more often than volley, or do more damage/disable, which isn't good for an ashe with no items.

also i tried the flash thing, i stilll get hit by TF's gold card everytime, and its either i get hit by the turret, or the turret has just targeted me and hasn't fired yet. if the projectile is in air, it hits me everytime. however now that i think about it the other summoner spells aren't very good with ashe(i used to use promote/teleport)

i dunno, i don't feel too happy when a tryn just spinning slashes up to me and starts smacking me, because i know if i hightail it hes just going to slow me, and if i go toe to toe i'm going to lose. same with most other heros, karthus will laugh as you dance to avoid his lay waste+his aura, and if you run you get hit by his wall. shaco will decieve, sandwich you with jack in the box, then crit you and 2 shiv when you start running out of his reach(which you won't be anytime soon since hes faster+your slowed), heimer can just sit back and shoot missles at you all day, even if you are by the turret, while tossing a grenade or two. it makes it especially hard if the other characters aren't even pushing the lane(which they shouldn 't be really, especially levels 1-5, the damage you do to turrets is somewhat negligible) and just getting last hits. the minion wave will always either be center, or a little bit towards their side(or on your side if you decide to try playing the same way).

with maybe the static HP quints(+120ish health at the start) it makes it somewhat safer to run in without items, but how much do those blue HP/level give you? all i can see with this build is turret hugging until you get your items.


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SomeoneRandom

Member

12-28-2009

omg I have to say this thread is epic, a billion people trolled his post because its so horrible

My favorite part still is the "DONT BUY ANY ITEMS, BUT SAVE UP UNTIL YOU CAN BUY BF AND BOOTS..." Why wouldnt you buy boots at the start then? and at least some potions? Its the worst possible ashe build, but at least its better than 0 items...

If you cant see how 15% summoner CD reduc is better than 1.25% mana, for a CARRY you really have no idea how to play... and finally you say with infinity edge crit you would crit 1 in every 10... but your passive makes sure you hit more not to mention it adds 20% CRIT... so at minimum with base your at 23-24%... which is 1:4 or 1:5

Learn to play, delete this guide and read some other ones cause your awful

Again, L2P


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Dathaen

Junior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
2 B.F. Swords < IE

It's just the truth, raw damage doesn't cut it, 20% crit simply does that what makes physical damage last in this game: it scales.

Raw damage doesn't scale unless it's supported by a stat that exponentially increases your dps, i.e. crit, crit damage and attack speed.
You're actually probably right... in the long run. Early game, when heroes (not the tanks) have roughly 1.2 or 1.5k health, is when you get the swords. You still have an IE mid/late game. I'm going to do some math real quick (this is all before armor mitigation).

Infinity Edge = 80 damage and 20% crit. Lets say you crit every 5th attack (1:5 crit ratio). Thats a total of 520 damage every 5 attacks, factoring in the 250% crit damage.

2 BF Swords = 100 damage. Thats a total of 500 damage every 5 attacks.

Now looking at that, you have to realize, that it is not realistic to crit every 5th attack, because there are no ensured crits. Each attack has its own chance to crit, so you may get lucky and do more damage in one set of 5 attacks, or you may not crit at all, and only do 400 damage. PERSONALLY I do not like to take chances and have to rely on lucky crits, and that is why I favor the constant raw damage.

Quote:
Man, you'd still be critting cause that's Ashe's passive, so yeah gotta get IE.

And you really need a starting item to be honest, anything that gives HP / Regen / Armor since at the start it's all about auto attacks or you'll end up being the first blood for sure.
Ashe's passive, let me restate this, is this: you gain a % of crit when you dont attack for 3 seconds. This effect stacks, until you reach 100% crit. And to be honest, there have been many times when I get first blood.

Quote:
alas, but some characters don't need to target you to "hit" you, nunu, malphite, kassassdin, veigar, blitzcrank, morgana, shaco, tryndamere, sivir, heimer, anivia, ryze, amumu, cho'gath, mundo, gangplank, fiddlesticks, teemo, kayle, annie, tristana, jax, yi, corki, alistar, soraka, sion, taric, janna, zilean, TF, and karthus can all hit you with a skillshot, or just toss something at you to damage you, and its either thosecharacters can spam their abilities more often than volley, or do more damage/disable, which isn't good for an ashe with no items.

also i tried the flash thing, i stilll get hit by TF's gold card everytime, and its either i get hit by the turret, or the turret has just targeted me and hasn't fired yet. if the projectile is in air, it hits me everytime. however now that i think about it the other summoner spells aren't very good with ashe(i used to use promote/teleport)

i dunno, i don't feel too happy when a tryn just spinning slashes up to me and starts smacking me, because i know if i hightail it hes just going to slow me, and if i go toe to toe i'm going to lose. same with most other heros, karthus will laugh as you dance to avoid his lay waste+his aura, and if you run you get hit by his wall. shaco will decieve, sandwich you with jack in the box, then crit you and 2 shiv when you start running out of his reach(which you won't be anytime soon since hes faster+your slowed), heimer can just sit back and shoot missles at you all day, even if you are by the turret, while tossing a grenade or two. it makes it especially hard if the other characters aren't even pushing the lane(which they shouldn 't be really, especially levels 1-5, the damage you do to turrets is somewhat negligible) and just getting last hits. the minion wave will always either be center, or a little bit towards their side(or on your side if you decide to try playing the same way).

with maybe the static HP quints(+120ish health at the start) it makes it somewhat safer to run in without items, but how much do those blue HP/level give you? all i can see with this build is turret hugging until you get your items.
Regarding the skill shots: dodge them. Read your opponents. Learn what the characters' animations are for each shot. I won't lie to you, Heimerdinger and Sivir are Ashe's worst enemies. Heimer absolutely does not have an animation for his rockets, as to where Sivir just auto attacks and kills you.

You're right about TF. I talked to a friend who plays him religiously, and there is no escaping his gold card. Probably something to do with how fast it travels. And yes, you can Flash out of a turret shot. I have done it before, and I'll keep on doing it.

The blue runes (T3) give 9.72 HP at level 18. It probably isn't more than yellow gives, but oddly, yellow gives more mp5. As far as quints go, a static HP one would probably help. I just don't see myself giving up the mp5 or crit damage for it. And, unless I'm against Sivir or Heimer (which I call for a switch if I am), I'm usually pushing their turret early game.

Quote:
omg I have to say this thread is epic, a billion people trolled his post because its so horrible

My favorite part still is the "DONT BUY ANY ITEMS, BUT SAVE UP UNTIL YOU CAN BUY BF AND BOOTS..." Why wouldnt you buy boots at the start then? and at least some potions? Its the worst possible ashe build, but at least its better than 0 items...

If you cant see how 15% summoner CD reduc is better than 1.25% mana, for a CARRY you really have no idea how to play... and finally you say with infinity edge crit you would crit 1 in every 10... but your passive makes sure you hit more not to mention it adds 20% CRIT... so at minimum with base your at 23-24%... which is 1:4 or 1:5

Learn to play, delete this guide and read some other ones cause your awful

Again, L2P
BF Sword then Boots. If you can afford them both in one trip, go for it. If not, then get the Sword and go back on your lane.

I gave you the numbers for the spells that I use. Because I use those spells, and how I use them, those few seconds don't mean anything to me really. Have you ever found yourself saying "OH MAN, I wish I didn't have to wait 45 seconds," or "Ugh, if only I had that 27 seconds off of Flash!"?

And I'll admit, I was wrong about IE's crit chance. It was 3am and I was tired. I fixed the math somewhere above this. And I'm not quite sure what you're saying about her passive. Makes sure you hit more?

Quote:
if anyone would like me to show them how this works, I'd be more than happy to. Add me ingame (Dathaen is the name, obviously) and we'll get some games going.
Still completely true, and I'm willing to do it today even.


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Dantage

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Member

12-28-2009

I dislike your math on the 2 BF > IE. You're not taking into account Ashe's base chance to critical strike which would skew it even more in favor of IE. Also, I find it more convenient to be buying the smaller components of IE if by chance I'm sent to base. By the way, if you really dislike taking into account lucky critical strikes, you should probably re-work those red runes into Armor penetration.

Going into mid lane without spending any gold. That really isn't very smart. I really don't understand your logic, you claim you dislike relying on chance, but here you are relying on the chance that your lane opponent is a blithering idiot who doesn't look at your inventory and realize "hey this guy has no regen". If you get sent back once, and teleport back, you're still probably gonna miss at least half a creep wave worth of gold and exp. If you're killed, you've effectively handed your lane opponent an entire creep wave of xp/gold. If you get sent back 2x, then your teleport probably won't be up and you'll miss at the minimum an entire wave worth of gold and exp.

You have 475 gold to start. Consider using it. You're eventually getting boots, so buy them and 2 health potions. Its not like you're getting compound interest having gold laying about. If you buy a regrowth pendant, you can always resell it for 360 gold. That'll be a net loss of 115 gold. But, you'll be gaining hp and can probably stay in a lane and not waste your teleport to go back and heal. If you think that 115 gold is too much, then consider spending 105 gold and purchasing 3 hp potions. Thats another 600 hp of on the demand hp regen.


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Dathaen

Junior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantage View Post
I dislike your math on the 2 BF > IE. You're not taking into account Ashe's base chance to critical strike which would skew it even more in favor of IE. Also, I find it more convenient to be buying the smaller components of IE if by chance I'm sent to base. By the way, if you really dislike taking into account lucky critical strikes, you should probably re-work those red runes into Armor penetration.

Going into mid lane without spending any gold. That really isn't very smart. I really don't understand your logic, you claim you dislike relying on chance, but here you are relying on the chance that your lane opponent is a blithering idiot who doesn't look at your inventory and realize "hey this guy has no regen". If you get sent back once, and teleport back, you're still probably gonna miss at least half a creep wave worth of gold and exp. If you're killed, you've effectively handed your lane opponent an entire creep wave of xp/gold. If you get sent back 2x, then your teleport probably won't be up and you'll miss at the minimum an entire wave worth of gold and exp.

You have 475 gold to start. Consider using it. You're eventually getting boots, so buy them and 2 health potions. Its not like you're getting compound interest having gold laying about. If you buy a regrowth pendant, you can always resell it for 360 gold. That'll be a net loss of 115 gold. But, you'll be gaining hp and can probably stay in a lane and not waste your teleport to go back and heal. If you think that 115 gold is too much, then consider spending 105 gold and purchasing 3 hp potions. Thats another 600 hp of on the demand hp regen.
Your right. If I didn't like crit, I would get armor pen. But, seeing as how late game (where carrying matters), I have an IE and Bloodthirster and Phantom, crit dmg works very nicely. All of my math was based on the item's stats, with no relation to Ashe's stats. Her stats sway it in favor of whichever item you like; 50 more base damage for 250 more damage every 5 hits, or 5% more crit to start with, which makes your crit 1:4, again, assuming that a crit is ensured every 4 shots.

The reason I get two BF Swords is completely preference; I do not like having a large range of attack damage over time. With IE (every 5 attacks), you have a 400-1000 dmg range (depending on how much you crit), with 2 BF's, you do 500 damage always.

Going into mid without items is not a "chance". I rely on skill to keep me away from harm, to keep my HP up. If I get hit with a skill shot (lets say Anivia's iceball), I play a bit more defensively than I would if I hadn't gotten hit.

And I have considered buying items. Once this next patch comes out, Doran's Blade is going to be my first item period. But as of now, I see players getting Catalyst makings or Philo stone makings, but I always surpass them in my k/d ratio. I just feel that spending money on other things prevents me from starting to get kills early. The earlier you can kill a hero, the better.


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darkarsenic

Junior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
Regarding the skill shots: dodge them. Read your opponents. Learn what the characters' animations are for each shot. I won't lie to you, Heimerdinger and Sivir are Ashe's worst enemies. Heimer absolutely does not have an animation for his rockets, as to where Sivir just auto attacks and kills you.
half the characters i listed aren't even actual skillshots, they just click on you and it fires if you are in range. dodging a skillshot is alot harder when you don't have boots, especially with ashe's low base speed, and if its just a click and fire skill, you'll be hugging that turret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
Going into mid without items is not a "chance". I rely on skill to keep me away from harm, to keep my HP up. If I get hit with a skill shot (lets say Anivia's iceball), I play a bit more defensively than I would if I hadn't gotten hit.
then thats where they would start denying you gold, or even turret dive to kill you. the second you start hugging that turret is the second they'll make sure that lane doesn't go anywhere until they've farmed up, or until they've leveled up enough to kill you even when your hugging. i can see it still working in a low-mid ELO games where they'll push when you're playing defensively, but once you move up to those premades where they'll call a malphite over to ult you by your turret, or even let you push and call for a gank the second they notice you have no items, is where i see this build failing.


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Lendari

Adjudicator

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkarsenic View Post
ashe doesn't seem like a good carry to me
Maxed out Ashe is definitely a carry.

Quote:
2 BF Swords
The 2 BF Swords might be better than infinity edge for (literally) a few minutes of game play, but it is a very short terms strategy - and short terms strategies don't work on carries. You always have to think late game.

Long term your DPS comes from crits, not + damage. Infinity Edge + Phantom Dancer is MUCH stronger than say Bloodthirster + Black Cleaver in terms of damage output over 10-20 seconds. Phantom Dancer will raise your DPS exponentially (until you hit diminishing returns on attack speed), whereas adding +dmg is a linear increase.

Especially with Lethality (mastery) and %crit damage quintessences... you can't go wrong with IE.


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SomeoneRandom

Member

12-28-2009

You really have no idea how to play ashe... you say to attack more so your passive is irrelevant, but good players know how to abuse her passive by critting heroes... not to mention your only attacks should be last hits, which means your shooting 6 shots at creeps in a 30 sec or so time frame... plenty of time for her crit to stack...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
I gave you the numbers for the spells that I use. Because I use those spells, and how I use them, those few seconds don't mean anything to me really. Have you ever found yourself saying "OH MAN, I wish I didn't have to wait 45 seconds," or "Ugh, if only I had that 27 seconds off of Flash!"?
I will start by saying back to you, "OH MAN, I WISH I HAD THAT 3 MANA THAT WAS PROVIDED TO ME BY THE 1.25% MAX MANA MASTERY I AM MISSING" because I bet you never said that....

If your not using your summoner skills on almost every cooldown then your not playing your hero effectively

If youve never been ganked with flash ALMOST UP but not yet! then you havent played enough lol

Not to mention your missing 45 seconds off your teleport... as well as 39.75(assuming that the -15 is applied first) seconds off flash by skipping BOTH masteries for it for your stupid mana talent

If you really go to a mid lane with 0 items YOU SUCK AT LOL

I am sorry, this was fun to troll, I am glad people noticed how horrid this guy is... these are the kind of guides we need to be able to delete... we need a screening process for this forum, morons just keep posting idiocy on here... I miss beta


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Aregionius

Senior Wrenchman

12-29-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
All of my math was based on the item's stats, with no relation to Ashe's stats. Her stats sway it in favor of whichever item you like; 50 more base damage for 250 more damage every 5 hits, or 5% more crit to start with, which makes your crit 1:4, again, assuming that a crit is ensured every 4 shots.

The reason I get two BF Swords is completely preference; I do not like having a large range of attack damage over time. With IE (every 5 attacks), you have a 400-1000 dmg range (depending on how much you crit), with 2 BF's, you do 500 damage always.
Her stats don't really sway the math in favor of any item, you just apply them on top of every item you get. So it's 50 base damage AND 5% crit. And the idea that steady low damage is better than variable higher damag just seems odd. Certainly you might feel more comfortable knowing you're going to do 160 damage a hit, but with the Infinity Edge you KNOW you're going to do 140 damage a hit and it's a bonus when you spike for 350. On top of that, with a 25%+ crit rate, even ignoring her passive, 1 out of ever 4 shots critting isn't all that variable, plus overall you do more damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
Going into mid without items is not a "chance". I rely on skill to keep me away from harm, to keep my HP up. If I get hit with a skill shot (lets say Anivia's iceball), I play a bit more defensively than I would if I hadn't gotten hit.
I think what people are bringing up here is, it takes a while to make 2,200 even solo. If you go mid, chances are you're going to be up against another Ashe, or Teemo, Tristana, Annie, and these people will have an item that allows them to regen and lane better, or regen mana and hit you with more vollies or boots that let them close the distance faster, etc. Certainly you can be an excellent escape artist, but that also means you're spending time evading them and not last hitting creeps to get your 2k gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
Third Paragraph: By taking away Flash, you get rid of Ashe's only escape skill. Volley does a certain amount, but can only go so far. And yes, it does take away turret shots, and other projectiles. Go test it. Run into a turret's range, let it shoot at you, and Flash away. If you can't manage that, you're too slow.
Flash is a good escape skill, I use it. But if that's you're only escape, use it once and then for 3 minutes you have to hang back since it's on cooldown, not effective for continuing to lane against an agressive opponent. Also, flash will save you a hit if the turret targets you, but once it's fired the projectile still hits you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dathaen View Post
I'm assuming you mean the Summoner Spell CDR, so I say this. Teleport is a 5 minute cooldown. What is 15% of 5 minutes? 45 seconds. 5 minutes minus 45 seconds is only 4 minutes, 15 seconds. Now lets look at Flash. 3 minute cooldown. 15%? 27 seconds. 3 minutes minus 27 seconds? 2 minutes, 33 seconds. I only look at these spells because those are the ones I use.

Now, please tell me, why would I spend a mastery point in that, just to get some seconds off of my summoner spells? The only thing I would even consider taking points out from is Expanded Mind, and that 1.25% increased mana is much more worth it for Ashe.

I gave you the numbers for the spells that I use. Because I use those spells, and how I use them, those few seconds don't mean anything to me really. Have you ever found yourself saying "OH MAN, I wish I didn't have to wait 45 seconds," or "Ugh, if only I had that 27 seconds off of Flash!"?
According to your build, you don't get any mana items, which means at level 18, Ashe's base mana is around 660. So 1 point in expanded mind nets you exactly 8.25 mana. That's about nothing, so I would absolutely say that 1 point in Summoner Spell Cooldown, taking 27 seconds off of flash, ESPECIALLY since it's your only escape skill, is huge. There are a bunch of times when I've been wishing that a summoner spell was up even with less than 10 seconds to go.


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