Sheen - How, when, where and why?

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Lyta Reimalken

Member

12-28-2009

I tend to play a variety of characters, as i get a bit bored sticking with just the one, that said, I spend a lot of time playing Shaco.
I've tended to go for builds involving zerkers boots, malady, last whisper and tiamat but i've noticed a lot of people use sheen on a lot of characters.

100% chance when an ability is used that your next physical attack deals 100% extra base damage. This effect has a 3 second cooldown.

When it says base damage, what is that exactly referring to, what appears in the bottom left corner of the screen, or pre-weapon damage? Also, when does it affect Decieve, on the initial 'decloak and stab' or on the auto-attack after?
I guess im just after some constructive advice as to how to get the best out of sheen, what it synergizes well with, and when to buy it in a build tree?

Its a serious question, but I guess I have my flamesuit on and stuff


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-28-2009

It means your damage without the bonus from weapons. Pretty sure it doesn't add to any multipliers with crits (just adds the damage after multiplication) and yes, it affects Deceive's initial strike.

Best heroes for Sheen/TF/LB are probably Blitz, TF, Nasus, AP Sion. Eve, Shaco, Jax, and some others I'm probably missing.


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Natu Utan

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Senior Recruiter

12-28-2009

So what I hear you saying about Sheen,

Your BASE damage is 100. But you have an infinity edge equipped, making your Physical Attacks 180.

Sheen will only do an extra 100, and not 180?


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Monxide

Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natu Utan View Post
So what I hear you saying about Sheen,

Your BASE damage is 100. But you have an infinity edge equipped, making your Physical Attacks 180.

Sheen will only do an extra 100, and not 180?
exactly, it will do only extra 100 damage, otherwise triforce would be a must for a lot of dps characters xD


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Falleth

Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
exactly, it will do only extra 100 damage, otherwise triforce would be a must for a lot of dps characters xD
But you have plenty of quite fast cd spells on shaco, for example, so you will do like 300 bonus dmg in really fast.


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Tyrfang

Senior Member

12-28-2009

Sheen is best on characters that use a lot of abilities as well as auto attack in their damage rotation. I usually get it on characters that I eventually end up getting a Trinity. Nidalee and Udyr are perfect champs for Sheen.

Sheen is good for Shaco as well because of the way Deceive is calculated. Sheen procs when you use deceive, so when you actually hit you get the bonus damage. The bonus damage cannot crit.

Parrrley is also calculated similarly, so Sheen is good for Gangplank (imo, although people tend to disagree heavily with my Gangplank build.)

The bonus proc is based on base attack damage which you can see if you open up the champion profile in-game. It increases with your level but it doesn't take into account your items (except for rare exceptions such as Atma's.)


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Amphiprison

Member

12-28-2009

Sheen works best with champions who have an ability that buffs "their next attack", like Blitz, Nasus, Shaco, or Gangplank, just to name a few. You'll get the extra damage from Sheen on the attack without having to try very hard to get it. It's especially good if your battle plan involves finding someone without a lot of HP and using multiple abilities in rapid succession to quickly burn down their HP- aka "burst damage."

Some champions can buy Sheen straight off the bat, like a skilled Shaco. Others will want to buy it after their first trip back to the base, like Nasus or Blitzcrank. Still others don't really shine until mid-late game, like Udyr and Gangplank, so they might as well wait a bit on it.

In general, I find that if I get a kill early on I can afford the whole Sheen right after I get to level 6. Then I can gank someone with my ultimate *and* Sheen before they realize I have it, basically ensuring me the kill. Once you have Sheen, smart players will expect you to sneak up out of nowhere and hit them hard, so you don't always get easy ganks after that. It is *great* for killing the carry early on before they get too l33t (looking at Master Yi here...)

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you're getting ganked a lot and not doing too well. Sheen won't help you stay alive if you're in a 1v2 situation or otherwise disadvantaged.

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you can't catch your enemies in the first place. Phage might be a smarter pick if you know you could kill your enemies if they'd just stop getting away so easily, and Phage combos with Sheen to get Trinity Force later, so it won't go to waste.

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you've somehow lucked into enough money to go straight for an endgame item like BF Sword. Sheen is nice but other things are nicer.

Sheen builds into Lichbane or Trinity Force. Both help you chase a bit: Lichbane through +movespeed, Trinity Force through slow on hit. Lichbane is better if someone else can reliably slow (Ashe), Trinity Force is better if you're the team's best chance at landing the first slow. Lichbane is better if there's a lot of enemy casters or if you're going an AP build yourself, Trinity Force is better if there's a lot of physical burst damage or if you're focusing on attack damage instead of AP.

Hope this helps.


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Tyrfang

Senior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphiprison View Post
Sheen builds into Lichbane or Trinity Force. Both help you chase a bit: Lichbane through +movespeed, Trinity Force through slow on hit. Lichbane is better if someone else can reliably slow (Ashe), Trinity Force is better if you're the team's best chance at landing the first slow. Lichbane is better if there's a lot of enemy casters or if you're going an AP build yourself, Trinity Force is better if there's a lot of physical burst damage or if you're focusing on attack damage instead of AP.

Hope this helps.
Trinity Force gives more move speed than Lich bane does...


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Lyta Reimalken

Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphiprison View Post
Sheen works best with champions who have an ability that buffs "their next attack", like Blitz, Nasus, Shaco, or Gangplank, just to name a few. You'll get the extra damage from Sheen on the attack without having to try very hard to get it. It's especially good if your battle plan involves finding someone without a lot of HP and using multiple abilities in rapid succession to quickly burn down their HP- aka "burst damage."

Some champions can buy Sheen straight off the bat, like a skilled Shaco. Others will want to buy it after their first trip back to the base, like Nasus or Blitzcrank. Still others don't really shine until mid-late game, like Udyr and Gangplank, so they might as well wait a bit on it.

In general, I find that if I get a kill early on I can afford the whole Sheen right after I get to level 6. Then I can gank someone with my ultimate *and* Sheen before they realize I have it, basically ensuring me the kill. Once you have Sheen, smart players will expect you to sneak up out of nowhere and hit them hard, so you don't always get easy ganks after that. It is *great* for killing the carry early on before they get too l33t (looking at Master Yi here...)

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you're getting ganked a lot and not doing too well. Sheen won't help you stay alive if you're in a 1v2 situation or otherwise disadvantaged.

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you can't catch your enemies in the first place. Phage might be a smarter pick if you know you could kill your enemies if they'd just stop getting away so easily, and Phage combos with Sheen to get Trinity Force later, so it won't go to waste.

You do NOT want to get Sheen if you've somehow lucked into enough money to go straight for an endgame item like BF Sword. Sheen is nice but other things are nicer.

Sheen builds into Lichbane or Trinity Force. Both help you chase a bit: Lichbane through +movespeed, Trinity Force through slow on hit. Lichbane is better if someone else can reliably slow (Ashe), Trinity Force is better if you're the team's best chance at landing the first slow. Lichbane is better if there's a lot of enemy casters or if you're going an AP build yourself, Trinity Force is better if there's a lot of physical burst damage or if you're focusing on attack damage instead of AP.

Hope this helps.
Thanks, the last 2 replies were exactly what I was looking for, as I find myself also playing Corki, do you think that as i do a phys dps build, that sheen would be useful there too? Given that I move in using Valkyrie it seems like a sheen proc would be very useful there. It seems like for Shaco you are best 'just' getting sheen and then going for more 'dpsish' items like BF sword or IE etc... I can see why getting TF would be awesome, but Sheen seems quite affordable on its own.


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Vindictiv

Senior Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyta Reimalken View Post
I tend to play a variety of characters, as i get a bit bored sticking with just the one, that said, I spend a lot of time playing Shaco.
I've tended to go for builds involving zerkers boots, malady, last whisper and tiamat but i've noticed a lot of people use sheen on a lot of characters.

100% chance when an ability is used that your next physical attack deals 100% extra base damage. This effect has a 3 second cooldown.

When it says base damage, what is that exactly referring to, what appears in the bottom left corner of the screen, or pre-weapon damage? Also, when does it affect Decieve, on the initial 'decloak and stab' or on the auto-attack after?
I guess im just after some constructive advice as to how to get the best out of sheen, what it synergizes well with, and when to buy it in a build tree?

Its a serious question, but I guess I have my flamesuit on and stuff
sheen : attack damage + 100% base damage (no weapon, guesstimate it at 100-120 on most champs at lvl 18)
Lichbane : attack damage + 100% of you AP (good if you have alot of AP...duh)
Trinity : attack damage + 150% base damage, no CD (good if you have short CDs)

With Shaco you can open from deceive for over 1k if your behind with a sheen/lich/trinity. Trinity's MAJOR advantage over sheen or lich bane is that it has no CD (from the damage point of view). Where the others have a 3 sec CD. And yes it will definitely apply to your deceive attack. On shaco imo sheen alone is enough, unless you build him as AP, then lichbane, which i dont like.

Reason is, you deceive and by the time you hit its been 3 sec and the sheen effect is still on you but off the CD. So open with 100% crit chance + proc and trow 2-shiv for another sheen proc. Then thats pretty much it.

Other champs, nidalee and Eve for example, have VERY short CDs that can be spammed, for them i prefer trinity since every attack will have the proc.

Personally i think sheen is 1 of the best weapon for Shaco. Infinity edge too, it definitely adds to the 130% crit from deceive, with runes and spec you can get your opener to crit for almost 300% damage.

I dont play Corki much but i wouldnt get sheen or others on him. In fact normally i wouldnt get it on a champ like Shaco either, but Shaco has oversized 100% crit chance that means the sheen effect will crit all the time.


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