Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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NewDudeOverThere

Member

11-23-2013

I also agreed on the fact that Riot will buff them after the rework is done. Look at Olaf and Yi, once Riot confirmed that they aren't as bad as before they will tweak the numbers up.

they would probably remove or reduced the delay on his speed or something.

@RiotScruffy can you also add CC reduction on his W while active or remove all CC when activated??


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Sightless66

Senior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewDudeOverThere View Post
I also agreed on the fact that Riot will buff them after the rework is done. Look at Olaf and Yi, once Riot confirmed that they aren't as bad as before they will tweak the numbers up.

they would probably remove or reduced the delay on his speed or something.

@RiotScruffy can you also add CC reduction on his W while active or remove all CC when activated??
That might be what they do. I'm concerned that in order to balance out the permaslow, they're going to have to significantly overtune something else on his kit, and I don't think he has too many levers to balance. The damage of his Q and E have never really been limiting factors, his MS will be high and they've shown resistance to lowering the delay. I think they will likely turn up the AS on his Q, or the damage on his abilities to compensate, and I don't think either of those will make Skarner any more enjoyable to play. Additionally, they'll likely have to be tuned quite high to make up for unreliable CC. I don't think it's a good direction to take.

I'm almost positive they won't reduce CC effects on Skarner when the shield is up. That would give Skarner a way to avoid counterplay, and I think we can all guess how likely that is to go through.


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APrinnyDood

Junior Member

11-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sightless66 View Post
I never suggested that this was inevitable, merely that this is what would occur. Remember than when I say that this is what is likely to happen, I'm taking it from what Riot has already done. They already have this plan. My bringing it up isn't telling them anything they don't already know. However, it is important that we react to what they intend to do. For example, if we simply argue that the removal of permaslow will make Skarner weaker, the response in their mind is "so what, we'll buff him if he's weak". Therefore, we not only have to explain why removing it won't just make him weak, but we also have to address why it will make him less satisfying to play, and we have to address their fundamental propositions about A. why they think Skarner needs a rework and B. why they think that permaslow must be removed. We're unlikely to win on a straight "skarner will be weaker" argument because they intend to balance him after this in a way they would refuse to do now.

Either way, I'm not going to comply with your requests to stop posting. You'll keep asking, I'm sure.

As for why he may care, I think his reason may be similar to mine. I view your method as limited because you purposely try to limit debate to focus on negatives instead of acknowledging positives and saying why they aren't sufficient. We've been over that though, so I don't think we need to reopen that any more.

With that said, I would like to see a more comphrensive post detailing what exactly the benefits and costs to Skarner are from Riot's point of view. Most of Scruffy's posts in the past focus very highly on the positives, and while he has acknowledged a few points (the midgame weakness being a key one), he hasn't gone into enough detail about what he considers the costs, particularly to solo chasing or Skirmish clean-up.

Also, has anyone heard anything about when Skarner is getting enabled the PBE? The dataminers said he was readded, but he's currently disabled. Getting back to testing would be useful.
No, I just think you're both got the common sense of a brick wall, but at least you realized it and stopped talking to him about it. Although, I do have to say, you're losing points quickly for giving any ground that could be used to start this bull**** again.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-24-2013

I think that anymore discussion on this topic is wasted without direct conversation/reply from RIOT.

There have been lots of ideas thrown out here, plenty of arguments (both good and bad) about why the rework is not an improvement in the minds of the players who care to comment. Unless RIOT is going to come onto these boards and actually respond to our concerns, thought, and ideas, we are really wasting our breath at this point.

Im going to continue to watch this thread, and hope we get a chance to actually have a back and forth conversation with riotscruffy on some of the issues.

Please do me a favor, those of you who are most frequently posting, and represent the rest of us with some dignity. One sure fire way to get them to ignore us is to be a bunch of cry-baby butt heads.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahamut View Post
I think that anymore discussion on this topic is wasted without direct conversation/reply from RIOT.
OR the more stink we can raise about the changes, the better. It really is confusing when I stop to think what skill is supposed to be Skarner's goto skill now. What is it that defines Skarner anymore? He's kinda like Rammus without the taunt, I guess.

@Scruffy: I've been posting here for about 3 weeks now. I wonder if you are willing to talk about these changes with us? You asked for input, are you reading this stuff? Lots of people have lots to say.


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HURRIMAPLANE

Junior Member

11-25-2013

I used to love the scorp! It's been a long time since I've felt he was playable, and even when I played him regularly (S2) I never felt he was "the best" choice, merely what I enjoyed doing.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
>His aesthetic. I really love the champion's voice overs. He's great fun to listen to, and see zoom around the map. I like the speed(which needs to stop being so easy to destroy with a poke).
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
>Nerfs to his ult radius made him even harder to effectively get into the battle, and a flash or re-position skill carefully timed nullify it. His E is terribly mana-inefficient and ineffectual on a champ that already has mana problems and only ever useful for a low level gank for a "tiny bit" of extra damage. He absolutely requires the blue buff to continue jungling.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
>That no one ever plays him! What is this Skurr-narr of which you speak?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
>Skarner as a tanky initiator is out-classed in nearly every way. Skarner as a bruiser is unreliable and not as good as udyr, at best. He can't re-position as often, or even as reliably as other champs (Singed- you can't CC mid-fling as easily as you can stop the drag, nor does Skarner have the slow to make it happen AND Skarner's shield-speed breaks. )
Blitz, Thresh, and Naut are going to out-perform Skarner's pull.
Udyr, Singed out run Skarner, and have much much more presence. Skarner ulted? He's invisible for the next cooldown duration.
Shields of various sorts are better- Shen(strength, cooldown), Karma(speedup, strength, shares), Leona(consistent protection), Udyr(strength, cooldown) come to mind.
Q reminds me of Evelynn, but with more mana starvation issues. He is clearly supposed to spam it, it shouldn't be that punishing to do so.

As for fixing this?
Make his ult see more use. Trade a little bit of power and make it usable more than once a teamfight. It ABSOLUTELY MUST be more terrifying than Singed's fling, Thresh's hook, Blitz's pull, Nautilus's Anchor or Ahri's Charm if Skarner is supposed to serve as a tanky initiator and apply that kind of pressure. It's not, and all these skills listed are currently NOT ULTIMATES. That's the biggest problem, and why no one touches Skarner with a ten-foot pole. As it is now, it is not deserving of ultimate status. IMHO, Skarner's ult needs to be tuned, and stop being an ult. It was either overpowered... or as it is now, nerfed so hard it's worse than non-ultimates on other champions in large part due to how difficult it is to effectively use. I get that it's hard to balance- maybe the solution is rather than trying to balance an ult like that to make it play like other non-ultimating champions that use their ult slot for a fourth skill. "THE ULTIMATE ONE SHOT RE-POSITIONING TOOL" Just might be something league meta can't handle, and Skarner as he is relies on it being central to his kit to succeed.
I'd be more than willing to talk about Skarner's ult becoming useful for consistent peel (A drag, but not a suppress? Not as much damage?) and that ult becoming something else, or his kit becoming more complimentary to an all-in playstyle.


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Sightless66

Senior Member

11-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by HURRIMAPLANE View Post
Nerfs to his ult radius made him even harder to effectively get into the battle,
What exactly are you referring to here? I looked through his patch notes, and I don't see anything about cast range nerfs. The only two changes I see to it besides the "bugfix" are that it had the duration increased and the CD increased in two separate patches.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...ner/Background (Patch Notes)

As for the rest of your changes, you seem to lean heavily towards Skarner being an initiator. Given the way his current kit works, I don't think that is a role he will ever fill satisfactorily. Even if the pull is on a normal ability like you suggest, that still won't give him any advantages for getting in range to use it. I'd rather see power focused (and probably slightly increased) in the rest of his kit and the ult retain roughly the same role it has now.


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Capitan Rick

Senior Member

11-26-2013

Ive read quite a few posts and i really like what HURRIMAPLANE wrote right above, and the real problem does lie in the ult. While its great and all to stun someone, its not that good to be able to stun every 120 seconds, especially if you need to gank often as a jungler. The qwe of his kit is really to blaise to be reliable enough. You also have to remember that skarner is really item dependent for his late game and if he loses early on and cant get his 3-4 core items to the build path he just sucks.

I do have an idea for an ult rework. It would be nice if that it had a passive effects. Every say blank attack consecutive from his q results in skarner using his stinger for an attack that stuns the target. This stun can't happen within blah blah blah time again. Skarner is a scorpion but for some reason never uses poison. So how about the other passive is that skarner poisons over time ever champion that he stuns for some ap number.

This way skarner is solidified as a continual dmg dealer and his ult synergizes well with the consistent dmg and cc.

Either way im glad he is getting something done, he was one of the first champs i ever played and i loved to jungle him early on, but really its been awhile since ive touched him either.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

11-26-2013
35 of 35 Riot Posts

Quick update about the Q attack speed buff. We found a bug internally that this buff was stacking much higher than it actually was supposed to. After fixing this bug, the impact of the attack speed seemed lower than what we intended so we also increased the values to compensate.

After the next pbe update, this bug will be fixed and his Q attack speed will be up from 4/5/6/7/8% to 8/10/12/14/16% per stack.


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Ninjaegy

Junior Member

11-26-2013

im was play and go 7mint or10 AFK and i come back and play and we win but when we go out i get the
Login Error this account has been suspended by the leaverBuster System until november 27,2013 due to idling in and/or leaving matches. Further offenses will Resolve them befor attemping Further matchmade games