Undeniable proof LP gains are broken

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asdfghjkl 7

Senior Member

09-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathByWaffle View Post
We could just... go back to the Elo system? That was pretty straightforward. You win, you get Elo. You lose, you lose Elo.

Simple and straightforward.
I can't believe no one has thought of this before.

Riot hire this man!


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HolyMonkee

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Senior Member

09-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdravko TERA View Post
It's a good thing someone can go 4-6 while feeding every game in their placements and make it into Silver then right?

Silver is the worst since the League systems, there's more players in Silver than any other League and it's thanks to the dumb placements, it's the worst League of them all.

I see people who are probably gold skill level playing with potato factory V tier quality players almost every game. The gaps in skill levels between the 10 players in each Silver game is astounding because of placements. I once had an Ashe with 36cs at 29 minutes, had 13 games played total was Silver IV. I'll never forget that Ashe that was ranked higher than me at the time.

The only reason games are somewhat playable are because at least there's usually one of those mega feeders with less than 20 games played total on each team.
This makes me feel so much better about myself. I am really working hard to get to Gold, and have been successful thus far getting from Silver 4 to Silver 2 in just a couple days, but some of the people I see in silver really makes me shake my head and wonder how they ever got here.

I really do think I can make it, but I can totally relate to this. I once had a Graves rush a FM as my adc one time. I mean...how does that make it to silver?


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Xailion

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Recruiter

09-30-2013

Same thing happened to me on my way to gold. In silver 1, I started getting +10, then + 5, then +2, then +1, all the way up to 99. at 99, I won and got 0. I lost a game, then won a game, still clamped. I lost 3 in a row after that, and was getting +20 or so from there, straight into my promo games.

I know your pain.

My thread was downvoted into oblivion though. I'm glad someone is bringing this to attention.


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asdfghjkl 7

Senior Member

09-30-2013

Need a real red response please. Not these stock statements they've been using all year which have been proven not to be true.


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Daen

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Recruiter

09-30-2013

This is sort of a small thing but it never ceases to bother me.

@Riot Socrates if you're still watching, is there data that shows people feel anything besides ambivalence towards the league system (e.g. me being in Elise's Ritualists grouped with 99 random people in the same League)? Everyone I've talked to either actively dislikes the thought of being segmented meaninglessly or doesn't care, but I'm not sure whether that's just my limited sample size or not.


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Riot Socrates

Systems Designer

09-30-2013
3 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
This is sort of a small thing but it never ceases to bother me.

@Riot Socrates if you're still watching, is there data that shows people feel anything besides ambivalence towards the league system (e.g. me being in Elise's Ritualists grouped with 99 random people in the same League)? Everyone I've talked to either actively dislikes the thought of being segmented meaninglessly or doesn't care, but I'm not sure whether that's just my limited sample size or not.
Yea, we've seen a lot more participation in ranked this year and that participation has been continuous. We look at player satisfaction in ranked and in general it looks good on paper but there are some pain points that basically everybody agrees on that we need to address.

The heart of the issue is that a lot of the workings are governed by values that aren't exposed to the player and the resulting behaviors are just confusing without those values. Getting 0 LP repeatedly for wins is not a fun experience and it's something we are going to address.


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Daen

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Recruiter

09-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Socrates View Post
Yea, we've seen a lot more participation in ranked this year and that participation has been continuous. We look at player satisfaction in ranked and in general it looks good on paper but there are some pain points that basically everybody agrees on that we need to address.

The heart of the issue is that a lot of the workings are governed by values that aren't exposed to the player and the resulting behaviors are just confusing without those values. Getting 0 LP repeatedly for wins is not a fun experience and it's something we are going to address.
I appreciate the answer, though I'm referring specifically to the grouping system, not the LP gain or the matchmaking system.

Do you have any studies relating specifically to the way you have players segmented within each Division? From what I can tell there's zero significance to being in Elise's Ritualists vs. Nunu's Urfriders or Heimerdinger's Turrets, and even within each of those groups it's effectively meaningless due to the fact it's literally just random people grouped in there with you. When you mention pain points is this one of them? It wasn't overly clear as to whether you were considering my comment to be one of the pain points or I wasn't clear in my presentation.


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asdfghjkl 7

Senior Member

09-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Socrates View Post
Yea, we've seen a lot more participation in ranked this year and that participation has been continuous. We look at player satisfaction in ranked and in general it looks good on paper but there are some pain points that basically everybody agrees on that we need to address.

The heart of the issue is that a lot of the workings are governed by values that aren't exposed to the player and the resulting behaviors are just confusing without those values. Getting 0 LP repeatedly for wins is not a fun experience and it's something we are going to address.
It's more than confusing. I've gone to great lengths to understand it, reading all the information you provided. Maybe the issue with Elise is explaiable, but based on what you're told us, there is no reason that I should get 0 LP, lose 2, win 1 then gain 10 LP and get a series. So I would like you to explain specifically how that happened. No more "it's confusing" "you need to win more than you lose" "were trying to make it more understandable for next season". Straight up my question is this:

Why does the system consider me not ready for promotion, then after losing 2 and winning 1, it considers me ready?

I also don't underatand how you can have an entire thread full of people (actually some days it seems like half of GD) telling you the new system sucks, not a single person saying the like it better, yet you still consider it an improvement?


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Gonsea

Senior Member

09-30-2013

He saying the same stuff again and again, Riot is using a bot Rioter now?


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ManicPhilosopher

Senior Member

09-30-2013

Can we please just have elo back?