Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

First Riot Post
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50mm3r

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I think you should fix the brush bug that makes it so slow moving lock ons can be dodged by going into brush at the right time.

This happens to me all the time as akali. If I cast my Q at a target and they go into brush after i cast it but before it hits them it will often completely disappear. I can run in after them and they wont have the mark on them and my Q will be on cooldown. pretty frustrating burning a chunk of my energy and my main damage spell to have it completely disappear.


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Cynicatt

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

I think it should be different rules for different things.

Taric's Dazzle should reveal him since it's a point and click spell. He's aggressing directly onto you, so it makes sense.

Skillshots shouldn't reveal the champion in the bush, since that's a part of the "mind game" kind of gameplay for some champions like Nidalee/Blitz, and they're easy to dodge by most people's standards.

Nunu's ultimate not revealing him in bushes is actually a small part of why Nunu is so fun and hilarious(in my experience at least) so I don't think it would be appropriate to take that aspect away from him, since he can't use it to his advantage in all scenarios anyway. It will take a sneaky Nunu to get this into a lot of teamfights, and if a player is skilled enough or paying enough attention they'll notice they're being slowed and probably realize they're walking in a Nunu ultimate anyway.

I think an easy/fair way to fix all that is to make it so that doing damage to an enemy champion reveals you for a brief period. That gives time for champions like Nidalee to cover some ground after firing skillshots.


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fishbeard

Recruiter

08-26-2013

In my opinion:

Skillshots should not reveal the champion, but the projectile should be fully visible.

Targeted spells and auto-attacks should reveal the champion.

Special abilities like Nunu's ult should be dealt with on a case-to-case basis. Certain things like this underscore the importance of game knowledge. Sure it's frustrating to get blown up by an unknown Nunu-Ult, but after it happens the first time, you should know "Hey, I should be careful and avoid having my whole team walk towards that bush Nunu just went into." There is a particle effect to show you're being slowed, correct? Maybe make that part more obvious. But Nunu himself shouldn't be revealed. You don't watch Ezreal walk into a bush, then act surprised when he hits you with a Mystic Shot. You shouldn't be surprised when Nunu walks into a bush and ults.


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FistOfTheHeavens

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Member

08-26-2013

I'm of the opinion that AAs, and offensive abilities should reveal the character. However, channels should have the caster remain invisible until it finishes casting. Shield spells such as Shen's Feint or Leona's Eclipse should not reveal on casting. I'm pretty sure Eclipse's explosion particle can be seen from outside the bush when it goes off and should only reveal her if it does damage. On next hit attacks like Nasus Q or Leona Q shouldn't reveal when they are cast, only when the enhanced attack is performed. I'm not sure if it would be better to have the reveal happen at the beginning or end of each abilities cast time. Having it happen at the beginning would give players more time to react, while having the reveal happen after the cast time would give players some advantage for casting in the bush as opposed to outside it.

EDIT: After thinking about it some more, I'm thinking that point and click offensive abilities should reveal the caster and skillshots be fully visible but not reveal the caster. Maybe skillshots reveal the caster if the spell hits something but that seems weird as it might cause situations where you miss your skillshot and hit a minion instead of champion which reveals you or miss everything and it doesn't.


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Madmax

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Skillshots shouldn't reveal.

Everything else should.


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HigeR

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Any action inside of brush should reveal the attacker...

But more importantly I think you guys should fix several bugs with brush... for example, holes -.- it hasn't happened to me in a while but it sucks when you ward inside a brush and the ward seems to be in another dimension where it's not revealing anything, it just stands there, inside the brush but not revealing anything.

There's another kind of bug - hole in brush too where there's a ward inside the brush and it reveals everything BUT a small spot so enemies hiding just in the tip of the brush will not be revealed ._. this has happened to me at least 3 times on the river bush in bot, once was with a pink ward not revealing a pink from the enemy (but he could easily see mine) and other times were just champions standing on the tip of the brush.

Also it'd be nice to have a clarification on warding inside walls... sometimes the ward will go through and sometimes it will bounce back ._.

aaaand also it'd be nice to know why does pink wards outside brush will not reveal pink wards inside brush even if you step on the brush but the other way around works normally (the ward inside the brush reveals the ward outside of it)

thanks :3


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Dokusei

Senior Member

08-26-2013

skillshots should not reveal a champion

auto target attacks should reveal a champion

nunu's ult should not reveal until you step in its aoe


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Oh No Bananas

Master Recruiter

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hi everyone, I'm pretty well known as a hardcore tabletop gamer
~Yakaru
Do you have a BGG account?, I'd love to know more of what style of game you like, worker placement, bidding...?


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PastrySandwich

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Another odd issue with brush is Zac in his original skin is difficult to tell when he is or isn't in the bush. As a jungler this can make for issues.


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Vivi R66

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Basically anything that is "point-and-click" reveals, but skillshots dont. And channels of on ground spells dont too.

It sounds simple to me, but would be nice if skillshots showed the user as a way to give some counterplay. The Nunu channel and others (dunno how many others exist, Galio?), i find them part of the champion kit, use the vision as surprise, so shouldnt be removed