Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

First Riot Post
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Mordaine137

Senior Member

06-04-2013

Super minions are antifun.


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Drukyul

Senior Member

06-04-2013

Thanks for the bump, that was a pretty good read.


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odbj

Senior Member

06-04-2013

DotA 2 is actually really fun, despite this list


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Whaambulance

Member

06-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
***EDIT: Added a bunch of new patterns.****

Fun Fails to Exceed Anti-Fun
Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from 'playing their game' or doing activities they consider fun. While everything useful you can do as a player is likely to cause SOME anti-fun in your opponents, it only becomes a design issue when the 'anti-fun' created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic. Dark Binding is VERY favorable on this measurement, because opponents get clutch dodges just like you get clutch hits, so it might actually create fun on both sides, instead of fun on one and weak anti-fun on another. On the other hand, a strong mana burn is NOT desirable -- if you drain someone to 0 you feel kinda good, and they feel TERRIBLE -- so the anti-fun is exceeded by the fun. This is important because the goal of the game is for players to have fun, so designers should seek abilities that result in a net increase of fun in the game. Basic design theory, yes?

False Choice -- Deceptive Wrong Choice
This is when you present the player with one or more choices that appear to be valid, but one of the choices is just flat wrong. An example of this is an ability we had in early stages recently. It was a wall like Karthus' wall, but if you ran into it, it did damage to you, and then knocked you towards the caster. In almost every case, this is a false choice -- because you just shoudln't go there ever. If it was possible for the character to do a knockback to send you into the wall, it wouldn't be as bad. Anyhow, there's no reason to give players a choice that is just plain bad -- the Tomb of Horrors (original module) is defined by false choices -- like the room with three treasure chests, all of which have no treasure and lethal traps.

False Choice -- Ineffective Choice
Similar to above, except when you give what appears to be an interesting choice that is then completely unrewarding, or ineffective at the promised action. An older version of Swain's lazer bird had this failing... Because the slow was so large, you could never run away in time to de-leash and break the spell and reduce damage, and in cases you did, you'd just dodge 20% of the damage at a big cost of movement and DPS -- so running was just an ineffective choice.

Or We Could **** the Player!!1111oneoneone
This is where you straight up screw over the player, usually with dramatic flair, or maybe just try to make the player feel crappy in a way that isn't contributing to the fun of the game. These range in severity, but examples usually are spawned because the designer is a pretentious wanker who likes to show what a smart dude he is and how stupid the player is. I do not respect designers who engage in this pattern intentionally, and encourage any design lead out there to immediately fire any of your staff that does.
So now that "Proxy Singed"Is in every single game I have played lately, are you or morello going to take a look at it?

It completely meets the requirements of
"Fun Fails to Exceed Anit-Fun" -
As an ADC- It prevents me from "playing my game" after the laning phase. This is assuming I get to play a proper laning phase where I'm not getting perma camped by enemy jungle while my top and jungle chase singed. Unless I get lucky and get a team that knows how to deal with him. If my team doesn't my only option is to push with no minions because singed killed my pushing wave while the rest of my team chases singed in base and I just let myself die till I'm not worth any gold and keep pushing and fighting 1v4s. "Playing my game" would actually consist of team fights and pushing objectives with a full team, in my opinion. This is a very and unrewarding experience. I basically turn into a solo creep worth no gold. Plus my team would just end up reporting me for intentional feeding. Getting reported because my team chases singed in their base all game is also anti-fun.

If I help my team kill him, all of our towers are getting pushed by the remaining enemy team and lack of minions, they get jungle control, and counter pushing becomes incredibly difficult. This is also anti fun on a huge scale. All singed needs to do is tele into our base to disrupt our entire team. I get it, that's the "tactic", but it's basically an exploit.

Sword of the Occult, and the entire match is left feeling like "Deceptive Choice - Ineffective Choice"

As Support - Basically the same situation as ADC, except I'm just buying GP10 and waiting for the 60 minute mark where both teams should be almost equal on gear.

As a side note, it almost feels more rewarding to /ff three 20 minute games vs a singed proxy than to win a 60+minute game. It feels more rewarding on IP gain. It also feels more rewarding on in-game play and activities, versus the only other choice of playing a 60 minute sit in base till we win game.

As an AP Mid - Yay, I finally called and got mid. Also, I can buy a Mejais and get my stacks! But now I'm one of those teammates chasing singed in my base. As soon as I kill him, I probably took enough damage from the poison to have to go heal and can't safely push out where the enemy team has full map control. This gives singed time to re-spawn and run back or tele.

Or if I ignore him, I can't push my lane, "Play my game", because singed killed all my minions as soon as they spawned and there is no way I'm going to solo push a tower as an AP.

Not sure if those are "Ineffective Choice" or "Deceptive Wrong Choice"

As Jungler - Well I guess I'm going to be playing mostly normally, except there is no point in ever going top. At least not until the enemy jungle, proxy singed, and mid go to make their move. It's always all three at once. I still don't feel like I'm "Playing my game"or doing activities I consider fun. If our mid is having a bad day / game, that is two lanes lost. In fact, by allowing this to continue, you are requiring every mid player to have the best game of their life, every game. At least if they want to win a match vs Proxy Singed.

As Top - Unless you are also proxy-ing, you will never get to "play your game". There is no trading. No big plays, counter plays, narrow escapes. You either chase singed, get a couple kills till he's worth no gold, or just ignore him and farm until your tower goes down. Either way, your tower is lost You will never get to push their tower. If this isn't the definition of "anti-fun", I don't know what is.

I understand, that with the perfect team match-up, it's totally possible to win a game. But the process is not fun. No matter what lane you play. Even Irelia, who I never really saw as a huge game breaking problem, could do this much damage to every lane. And now she is left perma weak till a viable rework comes out.

As a last side note - "H. Participating in any action which, in the sole and exclusive judgment of Riot Games, “exploits” an undocumented aspect of the Game in order to secure an unfair advantage over other users;" - Riot EULA


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MisterAnderson

Senior Member

06-15-2013

bumping this for awareness


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Dasick

Member

06-15-2013

awareness? for what?

to see how full of **** Zileas is and how much of a hypocrite he is?

Lulu clearly breaks so many of this anti-patterns. Never mind that this list is stupid to begin with and puts limits on actual game design


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Apclear

Junior Member

07-11-2013

i haven't played LoL in over a year because DotA 2 is so anti-fun


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

07-22-2013

Might want to consider updating this and clarifying the definitions.


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lllustration

Senior Member

07-22-2013

If this is true, then Zileas really need to look onto reworked Karma's kit because that's the definition of boring right there...

Dunno if it has been said before but, Karma needs a proper upgrade to be able to function competitively. In her gameplay, not her numbers. (These buffs are never gonna help a champion with an unstable foundation).


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

07-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lllustration View Post
If this is true, then Zileas really need to look onto reworked Karma's kit because that's the definition of boring right there...

Dunno if it has been said before but, Karma needs a proper upgrade to be able to function competitively. In her gameplay, not her numbers. (These buffs are never gonna help a champion with an unstable foundation).
Boring=lack of FUN patterns, not presence of anti-fun ones. I personally tend to enjoy spammy mages and thus enjoy new Karma, but you might not. New Karma actually has less anti-fun than Old Karma (SUBSTANTIALLY less Burden of Knowledge for her enemies and teammates, conflicted purpose [albeit less than I think Riot may have implied during the rework process]).

Yorick is an anti-fun AND boring champion. He's certainly been competitive at times.

And to further hammer home that anti-fun does not equal boring, I bring you Rengar. Super-fun for the player, but the anti-fun experienced by Rengar's opponents is even greater. Riot has admitted repeatedly they ****ed up when they greenlighted his final design.