Tank Chogath item questions (including- why warmogg's?)

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Deshi

Senior Member

12-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by condon View Post
Logical falacy there.

"(Mundo) thought"

If you did a cross section of Mundo's head you'd see a monkey banging two severed heads together chanting "Mundo Mundo Mundo Mundo Mundo Mundo"
Who would be doing the chanting? The monkey or the severed heads?


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condon

Senior Member

12-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deshi View Post
Who would be doing the chanting? The monkey or the severed heads?
Theres more of that thinking thing. You'll never be a madman of Zuan.


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wildfire393

Senior Member

12-11-2009

From the "Valuation of Item Passives" thread, which calculates the efficiency of the passive effect of items based on how much they improve from their components:

Warmog’s Armor
Cost: 1100
Stats: 850 (+175) hp, 30 (+16) hp5
Passive: Gain 4 hp / .5 hp5 for minion kill, 40 hp / 5 hp5 for champion kill; max 500hp / 62.5 hp5
Value of stats: (175*2.4) + (16*33.9) = 962.4
Cost of passive: 137.6

So effectively, you're getting 500 HP and 62.5 HP (a 3318.75 GP value) for just 137.6 GP. That's an astoundingly good deal.


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Baron Corm

Senior Member

12-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire393 View Post
From the "Valuation of Item Passives" thread, which calculates the efficiency of the passive effect of items based on how much they improve from their components:

Warmog’s Armor
Cost: 1100
Stats: 850 (+175) hp, 30 (+16) hp5
Passive: Gain 4 hp / .5 hp5 for minion kill, 40 hp / 5 hp5 for champion kill; max 500hp / 62.5 hp5
Value of stats: (175*2.4) + (16*33.9) = 962.4
Cost of passive: 137.6

So effectively, you're getting 500 HP and 62.5 HP (a 3318.75 GP value) for just 137.6 GP. That's an astoundingly good deal.
Except that with all of the stuff you have to buy before it, you're actually spending 3200. That's quite a lot of money which could have gone toward armor, a Banshee's Veil or Force of Nature, or damage.


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Wulgreth

Member

12-12-2009

I don't agree with the guys who are arguing about the psychology of having 6k HP on a tank cho'gath. You are saying that people won't want to attack a 6k HP cho'gath but you are the tank, you WANT them to hit you (assuming they can't kill you), rather than your squishier friends.

For psychology purposes, as a tank, I would MUCH rather have them think they can kill me, and fail.

That said, armor and MR PEN seem to come in buckets (like the fairly cheap last whisper), where the only similar item might be Bloodrazor, which is only 3% and quit expensive. I don't know how the numbers play out.


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SwampZero

Senior Member

12-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulgreth View Post
I don't agree with the guys who are arguing about the psychology of having 6k HP on a tank cho'gath. You are saying that people won't want to attack a 6k HP cho'gath but you are the tank, you WANT them to hit you (assuming they can't kill you), rather than your squishier friends.

For psychology purposes, as a tank, I would MUCH rather have them think they can kill me, and fail.

Think about it.

Hitting you is fine, but what you really want is them to go "**** we can't take em" and back off.

And when people back off, you can bet your ass some dudes gonna run in the wrong direction, and a dude is going to get left behind and get eaten.

So yeah, you want to get hit, but you mostly want them to get disorganized just by you being there. It may sound like a stretch to you, but it actually happens. Players tilt out way more often and easy than you think, and do many more mistakes when they do.


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object

Member

12-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulgreth View Post
I don't agree with the guys who are arguing about the psychology of having 6k HP on a tank cho'gath. You are saying that people won't want to attack a 6k HP cho'gath but you are the tank, you WANT them to hit you (assuming they can't kill you), rather than your squishier friends.

For psychology purposes, as a tank, I would MUCH rather have them think they can kill me, and fail.
You dont need them to WANT to hit you, you need them HAVE to hit you, and luckily you achieve that simply by being there and using your moves. If they dont try to kill you, you will absoloutely rape their whole team while defending your teammates.

And as for the fear factor, it is much better having them KNOW they cannot kill you and so flee and die, than have them think they CAN kill you and maybe suceed.


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Deshi

Senior Member

12-12-2009

I think the main reason why getting Wargmog's seems like a standard procedure for Cho, is that it is totally synergistic with his passive ability (and ultimate, of course) and therefore with his normal play style.

I agree that armor can provide more protection, as can magic resistance and would never recommend being too stubborn with an item build. However, against a balanced team, stacking HP would protect you equally well against casters as it would against physical DPS, therefore, it would make sense to capitalize on Cho'Gath's innate ability to mass HP.

If the team was largely physical damage-based, then armor would be a logical option to consider.


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Tekman

Senior Member

12-12-2009

Is this the post the OP is referring to?

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=29398


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Baron Corm

Senior Member

12-12-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deshi View Post
I think the main reason why getting Wargmog's seems like a standard procedure for Cho, is that it is totally synergistic with his passive ability (and ultimate, of course) and therefore with his normal play style.

I agree that armor can provide more protection, as can magic resistance and would never recommend being too stubborn with an item build. However, against a balanced team, stacking HP would protect you equally well against casters as it would against physical DPS, therefore, it would make sense to capitalize on Cho'Gath's innate ability to mass HP.

If the team was largely physical damage-based, then armor would be a logical option to consider.
Here, have some math.

This build has 6 Warmog's. It gives you 15,716 effective health, is greatly biased towards physical damage health, grants no benefits other than health, and costs 19200 gold.

This build has a number of different armor, magic resistance, and health items. It gives you 15,096 effective health, is balanced against magic and physical damage, grants some amazing benefits including spell block, damage return, self-revive, and percentage of max health regeneration, and costs 13880.

That's 5320 less gold, for a much greater benefit.


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