[Counter-Guide] How to Lane/Fight against Vlad (Or: Stop *****ing and read this)

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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

10-22-2010

The time has come,
the Churchy said,
to talk of many things,
of Vlads, and morgs, and Demacia,
of malzahars and Kings.
And why the Urf, a champ is not,
and whether or not Kayle's have wings.


Champions are Overpowered because they can capitalize on the stupidity of their opponents more effectively than any other heroes. Whether it is a permanent stupidity like a twitch stacking maladies or a momentary stupidity like face checking the jungle brush when everyone is mia, some champions can capitalize on this and some can't.

I don't mean capitalize as in you run into brush and sion stuns you and deals damage. I mean that one momentary mistake can be your ultimate doom. Garen can and will kill you if you face check a brush in a moment of stupidity. Morgana will kill you if you don't dodge the skillshot. But that's not your ultimate doom, that's your temporary doom.

What I mean is that with those early few mistakes, these overpowered champions can snowball into unstoppable avalanches. A morg who free farms top and gets an early zhonyas can make or break your team fights and ultimately the game. A garen who gets a few kills can completely shut down your mid-game and win. Pre-nerf shaco could get a few ganks, solo baron, and win the game by hard carrying. A pre-nerf heimer could farm mid, then slow-push you and there is nothing you can do about it, except for not make the early mistakes that let them snowball there.

Vlad is the highest single snowballing character in the game. In this sense, he is OP. If you don't handle him in mid well enough, a few mistakes can cost you the game. He can stay in lane and farm indefinitely because of his massive regen at level 9. He can harass with impunity because of his powerful, no-cost, health restoring, short cooldown Q. And he can dive and escape well with sanguine pool.

Sanguine? I believe it's pronounced man-guine.

This guide is an effective means of stopping that power, but it only works if you are the player in mid. If your mid dies to vlad once? It's going to be an uphill battle. Twice? Mountain climbing. More? You are now climbing an overhang. The only solution? You have to deal with him and prevent him from snowballing. That means ganking mid, which will only work if their vlad makes a mistake in return.

But if your mid doesn't handle him, and he doesn't provide the tools for you to gank him, then he is free to reign terror on the sidelanes as well, and good luck even winning a face-to-face when you are at a level disadvantage.

That, my friends, is why Vladimir is OP. This is a rather good guide on how to deal with him in mid, but it's still much easier for him to take advantage of a weak champion than most.


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Pesterer

Senior Member

10-23-2010

wow, well thought out description of op


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Burning Rose

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Senior Member

10-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchy View Post
The time has come,
the Churchy said,
to talk of many things,
of Vlads, and morgs, and Demacia,
of malzahars and Kings.
And why the Urf, a champ is not,
and whether or not Kayle's have wings.


Champions are Overpowered because they can capitalize on the stupidity of their opponents more effectively than any other heroes. Whether it is a permanent stupidity like a twitch stacking maladies or a momentary stupidity like face checking the jungle brush when everyone is mia, some champions can capitalize on this and some can't.

I don't mean capitalize as in you run into brush and sion stuns you and deals damage. I mean that one momentary mistake can be your ultimate doom. Garen can and will kill you if you face check a brush in a moment of stupidity. Morgana will kill you if you don't dodge the skillshot. But that's not your ultimate doom, that's your temporary doom.

What I mean is that with those early few mistakes, these overpowered champions can snowball into unstoppable avalanches. A morg who free farms top and gets an early zhonyas can make or break your team fights and ultimately the game. A garen who gets a few kills can completely shut down your mid-game and win. Pre-nerf shaco could get a few ganks, solo baron, and win the game by hard carrying. A pre-nerf heimer could farm mid, then slow-push you and there is nothing you can do about it, except for not make the early mistakes that let them snowball there.

Vlad is the highest single snowballing character in the game. In this sense, he is OP. If you don't handle him in mid well enough, a few mistakes can cost you the game. He can stay in lane and farm indefinitely because of his massive regen at level 9. He can harass with impunity because of his powerful, no-cost, health restoring, short cooldown Q. And he can dive and escape well with sanguine pool.

Sanguine? I believe it's pronounced man-guine.

This guide is an effective means of stopping that power, but it only works if you are the player in mid. If your mid dies to vlad once? It's going to be an uphill battle. Twice? Mountain climbing. More? You are now climbing an overhang. The only solution? You have to deal with him and prevent him from snowballing. That means ganking mid, which will only work if their vlad makes a mistake in return.

But if your mid doesn't handle him, and he doesn't provide the tools for you to gank him, then he is free to reign terror on the sidelanes as well, and good luck even winning a face-to-face when you are at a level disadvantage.

That, my friends, is why Vladimir is OP. This is a rather good guide on how to deal with him in mid, but it's still much easier for him to take advantage of a weak champion than most.
The problem with your assesment is that it ignores early level Vlads. By that metric, to Vlad before level 5, nearly every champion in the game is OP, because if played right, they can easily screw over a Vladimir based on only one mistake. True, later on, Vladimir is much harder to deal with, but even then - he lacks the burst / heavy CC to really punish someone for a single mistake. Vladimir requires his targets to make multiple mistakes in a row.


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IntFam

Senior Member

10-23-2010

This guide is both entertaining AND informative. Hats off, sir.


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Hejjihoggu

Senior Member

10-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Rose View Post
Yep.

On a related note, a Good Vladimir will always lose to a good Mordekaiser mid.

Always.
I can't help but laugh and smile when I see this, for those who did not realize, Mordekaiser will destroy Vladimir and theres not much he can do about it, no matter what the level. I constantly kill over confident vlads because of one simple fact. Damage shield prevents harassment. Easy enough to do as well, just farm with siphon and vlad cannot damage your health while your siphon will damage his far more than he heals for. Eventually he will become The Tower Hugger and you will run in with a full damage shield, siphon, ult and ignite and watch him scream. in the event that he is tower hugging with a sufficient amount of health to survive then you use creeping death so that your run by him will help out and you take less damage. Most vlads will be so busy ****ting their pants and running that they don't try to 'Q' or sanguine heal to survive.


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Burning Rose

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Senior Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejjihoggu View Post
I can't help but laugh and smile when I see this, for those who did not realize, Mordekaiser will destroy Vladimir and theres not much he can do about it, no matter what the level. I constantly kill over confident vlads because of one simple fact. Damage shield prevents harassment. Easy enough to do as well, just farm with siphon and vlad cannot damage your health while your siphon will damage his far more than he heals for. Eventually he will become The Tower Hugger and you will run in with a full damage shield, siphon, ult and ignite and watch him scream. in the event that he is tower hugging with a sufficient amount of health to survive then you use creeping death so that your run by him will help out and you take less damage. Most vlads will be so busy ****ting their pants and running that they don't try to 'Q' or sanguine heal to survive.
Yep.

Until level 9, Siphon alone:
- Damages more than Tranfusion heals.
- Shields more than Transfusion damages.
- Has a shorter cooldown than Transfusion.

There's nothing a good Vlad can do to a good Mordekaiser.


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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Rose View Post
The problem with your assesment is that it ignores early level Vlads. By that metric, to Vlad before level 5, nearly every champion in the game is OP, because if played right, they can easily screw over a Vladimir based on only one mistake. True, later on, Vladimir is much harder to deal with, but even then - he lacks the burst / heavy CC to really punish someone for a single mistake. Vladimir requires his targets to make multiple mistakes in a row.
And to a vlad in mid, level 5 is 3 minutes of laning.
My point was that vladimir requires only the opponent he goes against in mid to make a mistake. After that, it's very difficult for side lanes to deal with him.

Vlad is the single worst middle lane for a side lane to try to deal with in a gank, R-->Q-->E-->W is normally enough to kill a level 5-7 side lane with vlad, and he can do it and get out extremely easily.

So your solution to vlad becomes: Take mid and play only characters capable of handling mid, or flip a coin and leave a disproportionately large part of the outcome of the game to someone else.


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Burning Rose

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Senior Member

10-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchy View Post
And to a vlad in mid, level 5 is 3 minutes of laning.
My point was that vladimir requires only the opponent he goes against in mid to make a mistake. After that, it's very difficult for side lanes to deal with him.

Vlad is the single worst middle lane for a side lane to try to deal with in a gank, R-->Q-->E-->W is normally enough to kill a level 5-7 side lane with vlad, and he can do it and get out extremely easily.

So your solution to vlad becomes: Take mid and play only characters capable of handling mid, or flip a coin and leave a disproportionately large part of the outcome of the game to someone else.
The same can be said about most chars that go mid. Vlad's no worse for a side-laner than a good Annie or Anivia, for example. Even Malzahar can completely wreck face when he goes to a side-lane if he's been mid.

So this:
Quote:
Take mid and play only characters capable of handling mid, or flip a coin and leave a disproportionately large part of the outcome of the game to someone else.
Can really be said about mids in general. Vlad's not a necessary part of the equation.


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Gale

Senior Member

11-01-2010

I'd like to add the the NUMBER 1 mistake in the laning phase is backing off after taking some damage (this goes for any and all squishy burst hitters). If they get in close enough to do some damage and you back off well then chances are you just let them succeed in harassing you. If you throw something back at them and (Heaven Forbid) chase them then they just failed and you came out on top.


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Burning Rose

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Senior Member

11-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale View Post
I'd like to add the the NUMBER 1 mistake in the laning phase is backing off after taking some damage (this goes for any and all squishy burst hitters). If they get in close enough to do some damage and you back off well then chances are you just let them succeed in harassing you. If you throw something back at them and (Heaven Forbid) chase them then they just failed and you came out on top.
Yeah, that was one of the big focuses of the first part of the guide. If Vlad manages to Q you, you have to punish him for it.