I just realized why Trundle needed a lore change.

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SlightlySuicidal

Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I personally would like us to pursue such interactions.
I find them interesting as well, but I still fail to see what was stopping old, filthy trundle from having them. I mean he could kill twitch and yell "I am the lord of the flies!"

Or when he uses Q on lulu "that tasted purple"

Or killing Jax "club beats lamp post" (or alternatively: Imagine if I had a real weapon!")

You can still do all of these things without having to pigeonhole champs into factions and good/evil sides.


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Solatoral

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04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
*Looks around at: Howling Abyss, Lissandra, Sejuani, Trundle, Quinn journals, Zac lab reports..*

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
When you rework Heimer (if/when) can you give him some interactions with Ziggs?


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Kuroi kiri

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
*Looks around at: Howling Abyss, Lissandra, Sejuani, Trundle, Quinn journals, Zac lab reports..*

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
although i really enjoy the new lore im still sad at the death of the JoJ especially because it had alot of loose ends that were not effectively tied off


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

04-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronovey View Post
Except this response makes no sense.

These are the exact definition of fringe characters; they aren't allied with any particular political source, but do have connections with existing champions and are centralized to a location even if not allied openly with others.

Pantheon and Leona are intertwined due to their upbringing, and Diana and Leona are intertwined due to their beliefs.

This is more similar to the Void champions; does Kog'maw have an allegiance to a nation? No, he doesn't. But he's connected to the League through Malzahar. Similarly, other champions from the Void. Kassadin is connected to these champions through what he saw, Cho'gath and Kha'zix are both Void-born creatures, and though none of them have lore ties ins with each other, they are all connected to a location if not an allegiance, which allows their story to expand.

Trundle's former lore had no affiliation and also lacked a central location from which he hailed from, which really left his story with nowhere to go.

[Edit]



Not to mention the new Anivia and Volibear lore currently on the PBE, or the lore tie in between Quinn and Talon implying another assassin that is not Talon on the loose, the Nami/moonstone/Diana triangle potentially going on, or Vi's recent tie in with Caitlyn in her lore as well!

[Edit 2]

And you want a champion who you can compare to Trundle? Look at Fiddlesticks. His lore literally just leaves him nowhere to go.
Great breakdown! You're reminding me of that big chart I've seen on reddit that shows champion relationships with each other. Can anyone find that? It shows very much what I'm talking about and I believe it even showcases outlyers pretty well.


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Alex3omg

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04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
*Looks around at: Howling Abyss, Lissandra, Sejuani, Trundle, Quinn journals, Zac lab reports..*

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
Can we have that stuff on the lore tab? Can we have the in-client notifications when new pages are up? I don't like that I have to get this stuff a day late from Surrender @ 20. I think you guys have been doing a lot better lately (having any lore at all other than backgrounds is a welcome change) and I know you're a big part of it. So don't you guys want everyone to know it's there? There are plenty of players who just never come to the forums. But they still might enjoy the pages.


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BooleanCube

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04-04-2013

@Ironstylus: I looked back at Taric's lore, and apparently I had forgotten he was from another dimension too. Hard to tell past all the gems. How do you propose Taric builds more relationships when he's just a "wandering knight" protecting all those whom need a protector?
Maybe he came from the same world as Malphite? Made enemies with a political force like Talon by protecting an assassination target? He's popular, too, but that's usually more relevant to people below him, not on the same level as him.
Taric is kind of like Draven, in that everyone loves indulging in his personality and gems; but Draven has a brother, affiliation with a faction, etc etc. How can Taric become as 'lore-successful' as Draven?


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SlightlySuicidal

Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
And you want a champion who you can compare to Trundle? Look at Fiddlesticks. His lore literally just leaves him nowhere to go.
TBH I love fiddle's one of the most in this game. It's so mysterious and so dark.

Mystery is a good thing when it comes to story telling.


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Alice Twilight

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04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Like I said in many previous threads, this isn't about assigning specific factions for every champion, it's creating relationships. Relationships. That's the key here.

Diana and Leona aren't factionally aligned, but they are regionally aligned with eathother, Pantheon and any other Mt Targon champions. Factions, geographical locations, etc, are all mechanisms to drive engagement with other characters. Sometimes existing champions lack those mechanisms to further development.

There needs to be some anchor binding them to the world or else there is no reason for them to affect it. Those anchors can be a family tie, hailing from a particular region, belonging to a religion, anything that allows an action they take to potentially change the world.
Sure interesting interactions between champions and the world as a whole is important HOWEVER making trundle a far lesser character to tie him to the world more isn't the way to go about it, most lol champions are tropes more than they're characters and trundle was a rare exception to the standard. He was a gem in a pile of rocks so you guys took him out and replaced him with a rock that looked similar just not a shiny rock. I think there's a lot of problems in reasoning, because changing trundle like this is a failure on multiple levels of design.

First we have the people that decided that trundle was popular enough so he needed be a completely different character, I don't actually know why he's unpopular he's basically Deadpool but the flaw here is still that it's ok to have niche characters that don't appeal to a wide audience, in many ways that's a positive.

Next we have the lore team who didn't look at trundle as a character at all and reduced him to a trope, sure maybe one we didn't have yet but still they took a full fledged character and reduced him to a trope.

I don't actually have anything to say about the art team, the new art looks great and I wish so hard that this was just a new skin for him rather than a rework. Seriously that as a skin would be exactly what Trundle players have been asking for.


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Alex3omg

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04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Great breakdown! You're reminding me of that big chart I've seen on reddit that shows champion relationships with each other. Can anyone find that? It shows very much what I'm talking about and I believe it even showcases outlyers pretty well.
It's on the lore forums... i'll see if I can find the thread..


>reddit.
Son I am disappoint.


eta- http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3144762


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Vanra

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrrion View Post
What more can he have done honestly? He's irrelevant to any political conflict (which is the basis for the League). He's got no where to go personally, in the end of his judgement he even says himself "It seems this is the 'cure' I was looking for after all.". What does the Cursed Troll do if he doesn't even consider himself cursed anymore? He's literally got no motivation for anything. He's only in the League because he's got nowhere else to go.

Edit- For other "completed champions".
Doesn't it suck that they have nothing to do? I would love to see Fizz take a pro-active role in the story. Same with Nami + Nautilus. Those three could all be related somehow. The thing that pulled Nautilus down into the ocean is the same force that threatens Nami's people and wiped out Fizz's race. Given that Nami needs the moonstone (and Ironstylus hinted that she has some upcoming interactions with Diana, if I recall correctly), this could easily tie up into a story that threatens Bilgewater (and then directly the rest of Valoran).

Trundle could never really have that option other than "I'm just here to help broski". There might be some other champions that suffer from this same thing, but not to the same degree as Trundle in my opinion.
Well, it's not like anything is ever going to be resolved for the other champions. Twitch is trying to recreate the process that created him. Do you think he'll ever succeed? Unless they need a new rat champion, I doubt it.