I just realized why Trundle needed a lore change.

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Floran

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's a problem. It's a big problem. Runaan is going to speak to this, if she hasn't already, but I want to emphasize that this is very much something we want to avoid. This is something we are reconciling as you see to the changes in lore that are happening, the assigning of factions, allegiances, etc.

We never want to complete out a champion's lore from inception. We want to have lots of room to tell a lot more stories. We don't want to conclude to a hard certainty because that closes the arch of a character. Integration with other characters, factions, etc, strengthens characters because it allows for continuous interactions, cross pollination and alliances. One-off-ism makes things not only confusing, but puts our characters at such distance from each other they may have no way to have a reasonable trajectory with each other. We need opportunities for characters to cross paths, to have relationships, to create conflict.

Again, Runaan will speak a lot to this. I'm not sure if she's gotten a chance to post about Trundle specifically. We've talked a lot about this before, and I'd like us to message why we do the things we do.
Parrot did you have anything to do with this trundle sej and blackfrost anivia stuff?


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Insur Salesman

Junior Member

04-04-2013

What does the lore team think about champions like Cho'gath, Shaco, Nocturne or Fiddlesticks? Yeah, they don't really have much to do outside the league besides scare little kids and looks bad-***, but being mysterious is kinda part of their "horrifying" character.


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Dr Toenail

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Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's a problem. It's a big problem. Runaan is going to speak to this, if she hasn't already
AT LAST THE TRUTH IS REVEALED

My friend owes me $20


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Tetramaster

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's a problem. It's a big problem. Runaan is going to speak to this, if she hasn't already, but I want to emphasize that this is very much something we want to avoid. This is something we are reconciling as you see to the changes in lore that are happening, the assigning of factions, allegiances, etc.

We never want to complete out a champion's lore from inception. We want to have lots of room to tell a lot more stories. We don't want to conclude to a hard certainty because that closes the arch of a character. Integration with other characters, factions, etc, strengthens characters because it allows for continuous interactions, cross pollination and alliances. One-off-ism makes things not only confusing, but puts our characters at such distance from each other they may have no way to have a reasonable trajectory with each other. We need opportunities for characters to cross paths, to have relationships, to create conflict.

Again, Runaan will speak a lot to this. I'm not sure if she's gotten a chance to post about Trundle specifically. We've talked a lot about this before, and I'd like us to message why we do the things we do.
Minor changes to tie each champion to their allied state would be sufficient for many champions.

For example: Poppy and Galio. Both of them desire vengence on Noxian forces due to the murder of their loved ones, and are tied to Demacia. It wouldn't be difficult to expand on this without changing their existing lore very much.

Except for Trundle, who's story WAS at a close with his Judgement, none of the champions need a totally fundamental re-write of their backstories.

For example: You could tie Olaf and Brand together since Brand's host was from Lokfar. While there isn't much tying them together, a journal set or something similar to what's been done on Frejord could be done for Lokfar as well.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

04-04-2013

i might be in the minority here but i would rather not see every single champion get involved in the whole faction thing

not complaining about trundle, but is this seriously going to continue until everyone is closely linked to 1 of them?

i don't really want to see demacian knight taric, shadow isles scourge fiddles, bildgewater brawler gragas or freljord monolith malphite

the number of outlier champions without a link to a faction or without a rivalry with another champion is pretty high but having at least a few who are like this is not a bad thing, imo it makes the world a bit bigger and less coincidental if there are champions that aren't neccessarily tied to other champions


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Handsome Knob

Member

04-04-2013

Just because Trundle had a character arc already where most other champions don't doesn't mean it had to be thrown out. I'd argue that Olaf was a better candidate than Trundle because his story is just about nonexistent and could have been spun into something akin to Beowulf. Whereas Trundle's story had ties to necromancy and could have been expanded on with whatever future plans they have for the Shadow Isles.


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sleepyj101

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's a problem. It's a big problem. Runaan is going to speak to this, if she hasn't already, but I want to emphasize that this is very much something we want to avoid. This is something we are reconciling as you see to the changes in lore that are happening, the assigning of factions, allegiances, etc.

We never want to complete out a champion's lore from inception. We want to have lots of room to tell a lot more stories. We don't want to conclude to a hard certainty because that closes the arch of a character. Integration with other characters, factions, etc, strengthens characters because it allows for continuous interactions, cross pollination and alliances. One-off-ism makes things not only confusing, but puts our characters at such distance from each other they may have no way to have a reasonable trajectory with each other. We need opportunities for characters to cross paths, to have relationships, to create conflict.

Again, Runaan will speak a lot to this. I'm not sure if she's gotten a chance to post about Trundle specifically. We've talked a lot about this before, and I'd like us to message why we do the things we do.
I would love to be a part of that discussion but I can't. I'm just too tired to talk with the Lore/Creative dept anymore. They ignored the lore community for so long and with a bunch of **** going on in my life I just can't work up the energy to care about whats left of this games lore. I...just cant.

Keep doing what ya'll are doing. I'll jump in and play a few ARAMs on occasion. Bout all I got left in me.


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SlightlySuicidal

Member

04-04-2013

You can always add stuff.

They beat the tar out of each other in an arena all the time. Maybe Trundle forms a bond with Maokai or someone else who has a tragic way into the league? Maybe Trundle finds out that Yorick was the necromancer that cursed his tribe?

This is because riot wanted to remove ugliness from the game and normalize trundle with this frost thing. I hate to say it, but the interaction thing looks a lot more like a cover than a reason because you can always develop things further. You can always get newer stories out of existing content.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

04-04-2013
2 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshioPeePee View Post
i might be in the minority here but i would rather not see every single champion get involved in the whole faction thing

not complaining about trundle, but is this seriously going to continue until everyone is closely linked to 1 of them?

i don't really want to see demacian knight taric, shadow isles scourge fiddles, bildgewater brawler gragas or freljord monolith malphite

the number of outlier champions without a link to a faction or without a rivalry with another champion is pretty high but having at least a few who are like this is not a bad thing, imo it makes the world a bit deeper if there are champions that aren't neccessarily tied to other champions
Fringe is different than one-off. Having characters in the periphery is absolutely fine. We need those contrasts. Not everyone is going to be aligned in an official or ideological sense, but we have to reduce the occurrence of characters that might as well not be part of the universe do to their origins or circumstances.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's a problem. It's a big problem. Runaan is going to speak to this, if she hasn't already, but I want to emphasize that this is very much something we want to avoid. This is something we are reconciling as you see to the changes in lore that are happening, the assigning of factions, allegiances, etc.

We never want to complete out a champion's lore from inception. We want to have lots of room to tell a lot more stories. We don't want to conclude to a hard certainty because that closes the arch of a character. Integration with other characters, factions, etc, strengthens characters because it allows for continuous interactions, cross pollination and alliances. One-off-ism makes things not only confusing, but puts our characters at such distance from each other they may have no way to have a reasonable trajectory with each other. We need opportunities for characters to cross paths, to have relationships, to create conflict.

Again, Runaan will speak a lot to this. I'm not sure if she's gotten a chance to post about Trundle specifically. We've talked a lot about this before, and I'd like us to message why we do the things we do.
Hmm. I like to think of Trundle's past as a prequel. The League figured out a way to heal Trundle while leaving his regenerative abilities similar to those of an average troll (and letting him possibly grow to full size, where he couldn't before as a side effect of the curse's weight,) so Trundle decided to just have an Ezreal-like deal where he occasionally gets summoned by the League for old times' sake while hopping around with a new band of trolls.

Of course, when the generally intelligent Trundle realizes that the tribe is going to starve to death, he takes matters into his own hands, possibly utilizing a few tricks and trinkets he picked up from the League to help with the Ice Witch's traps. His deal not only uses his Troll allies, but also helps the Ice Witch get herself into the world's political machinations through his League connections. Of course, since he's still fighting in the League (just under a banner this time), why not get a few pinstripes of his new role as Freljord's resident Troll King, like a kickass jacket and the right to use his badass new True Ice club on people's faces?

.......................................

I could see Taric's background getting a similar treatment--he might no longer be at home, but magic has wasted the Crystal Scar. I could see him moving to represent the Kalamandan banner. Speaking of which, that MIGHT be a cool area for a true earth mage to come from...

.......................................

And again speaking of Kalamanda, do you think Kassadin (who breaks it entirely) might want a relaunch?

His lore and aesthetic basis are decent, but his character presentation doesn't exactly feel solid, his gameplay readability is...rump, his graphical design looks a bit dated, and his kit violates way too many of Riot's design tropes (several orders of magnitude more so on Dominion)--extremely poor counterplay options besides "deny him farm prior to level 6 and hope he doesn't snowball", gives every mage in the game besides Morgana a false choice when facing him post-6, his abilities give him a ton of invisible power, no readability besides his E being up or not, etc. Like prework Karma he has good kit aspects (and again like prework Karma, they're primarily in his E and R), but he also has plenty of stupid kit aspects (like a long targeted silence on a stupidly hard to escape kit, a magic resist passive when both the Void and his lane have long flouted the idea of being "magic-exclusive", and that one ability you level to make your autoattacks restore mana and maybe help charge E once in a while) that could use a phaseout.

Besides, I'm sure Kassadin's daughter managed to find some armor in the Void. Right?

.......................................

As a side note, will Noxus be considering an alliance with the Winter's Claw? Sej DOES share ideals with Noxus, and Noxus has reason to suspect Demacia will back the Avarosan.

And finally, since you seem to be answering QQ from departments that have traditionally felt /ignored by Riot ( :P ):

Quote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3252767

Do you think you could please make Dominion less of a one-off, then? One Riot post and a promise that Morello will post is all we need...*insert Lissandra laugh here.*