Journey Into The Freljord III: The Troll King

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Mughi of Ruckus

Senior Member

03-27-2013

You know, it's kind of funny. Trundle's lore blurb gave me one impression of him and his judgement a completely different one. I remember liking the former, not caring too much for the latter, and not knowing where he might be going. The answer, it seems, is a wholly disconnected third option. From a peaceful band of trolls to a warlike one. From someone who gave himself for a noble sacrifice to a troll barking orders. From the runt of the litter to the king. Really, other than this being a troll, I have no idea what this is supposed to have in common with Trundle.

The sad thing is this went from interesting story without a hook to generic troll. Also, going by this track record we have:

Ashe's home city: Safe!
Allied town one: Terrified!
Allied town two: Sacked!
Allied town three: Defected!
Allied town four: Sacked!

So...I know you're trying to show the fierceness of the the other factions in Frejord, but there are ways of doing this that don't involve making joining Ashe seem like a very bad idea, because all we've seen of Ashe in these expeditions is that she's a very nice person who's not very capable of defending her allies.

Also, I really think you can make Trundle a troll king in Frejord, without making him a brutal alpha troll king. Hopefully nuance and development is forthcoming.

Edit: Just corrected it so it actually makes sense. I don't remember having been drunk when I typed this, but apparently...


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Mad Hit Monkey

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrocalypse View Post
No you shut up. I don't even wanna point out everything that's an insult in your post, but let me tell you: Showing your dislike to people who generalize stuff by generalizing them is stupid. I don't think anyone who talks about their problems with the relaunch thinks he speaks for everyone, I don't even know how you got that idea.
And yet, none of my statements are false. I did highlight the statement that gives the impression that you think I'm making up.

Quote:
"Trundle is ruined!" group (consisting of Trundle's original playerbase).
Yeah, that's the part.

I'm not showing my dislike about people who talks about their problems with the relaunch, I'm showing my disdain for people who have displayed vehement, irrational behavior in their treatment of the Developer of this game who keep throwing out loud and flawed declarations on how EVERYTHING IS RUINED, and have taken the change as a personal offense.

PLENTY of people have said that they like the change, INCLUDING Trundle Players, so get off the high horse.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hit Monkey View Post
I love how the Anti-Relaunch group seems to think it speaks for all the Trundle players. There are some people who own and play Trundle that like the change, you know.
Considering the "change" here consists of removing many of the defining aspects of Trundle (plague, runty nature, etc.), I'd have to say that the people who are happy about this change didn't like "Trundle" very much at all.

If I am handed an apple and given an orange, and am happy with that change, could you really say I wanted that apple? If I loved apples and took an apple, expecting an apple, and watched it replaced with an orange right before my eyes, don't you think I'd be a bit disappointed?

Quote:
I paid money for just about every damn champion short of a handful, including Trundle, and I did it in support of Riot the company, not Trundle the Champion. I do not consider this a waste of money, since I love the game, and I'm sure plenty of other players have done so as well.
Don't know about you, but unless there was something flawed with the original product and the change is one that is necessary for the integrity of said product, I wouldn't really expect said product to change--and if it were to change, I'd expect improvements (QoL, necessary buffs/nerfs).

However, if I paid for something I liked (that didn't endanger the integrity of the game) and then that thing I liked was changed from the ground up for reasons the seller expressed as auxiliary ("couldn't find a place for him in the lore"), and these changes also hurt the integrity of the champion (brawn and ice imply things that are not present in Trundle's kit--which is not being changed--and while lampshades can be hung, the "ice troll" theme sells Trundle's old kit less successfully than the disease and runtiness does), I'm going to speak up about it.

That's both removing something unique that I liked (replacing it with something I could get elsewhere--want a northern brute? I'll go with Sej or Olaf), and making a poor design decision in terms of readability and cohesiveness. That's two red flags. Actually--this solution is also an "easy way out" (if Riot's reasons for change are true, steps could've also been made to expand upon the Ruhgosk and their whole situation, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, running a new bath, and adopting a new baby). Three red flags.

Quote:
Meanwhile you have the Trundle-players who aren't as close-minded and ego-centric enough to assume that they represent the entire fanbase, who look at the changes and say 'You know, that's not all that bad. I like this change'. They are adapting to it.
Like I said, this change constitutes replacing just about everything the old Trundle had to offer (save for the tripod walk--which will now be altered due to his new physique--and his name). People who approve of this change see this "not Trundle" as a better alternative to "Trundle," and were lukewarm about Trundle at best.

Quote:
Wait for the relaunch to get put into the PBE, wait for more information, and for God's Sake, stay calm and shut up. Your lack of patience, information, and rational thinking is annoying everyone else. Including the Trundle Players.
"You don't know everything, therefore you know nothing" is a piss-poor argument and only delays the inevitable sh*tstorm by a few weeks. You also don't take into account that Riot has released information, and that from this information alone, solid conclusions can be reached. Allow me to lay them out for you.

-Trundle is no longer "runty" or "scrappy" in physique (evidenced by his new build, which you can see in the images presented by Riot)

-Trundle is no longer leprosy-level ugly in canon (evidenced by his new classic skin)

-Trundle is no longer an outcast (as evidenced by him leading around other trolls and being known as the "Troll King")

Considering that runtiness, scrappiness, leprosy-level ugliness, and being shunned by his tribe (despite taking on the brunt of their entire curse!) were the unique qualities that Trundle had to offer, what we have here is a Trundle that is almost entirely dissimilar to the original. Considering a fair amount of people liked the original, and that these qualities did not get in the way of readability (as Karma's fans did), and that this new troll could've been easily integrated into the game as a member of an entirely new tribe of trolls if Riot wanted frost trolls in the mix, there's a bit of a problem.


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hit Monkey View Post
I love how the Anti-Relaunch group seems to think it speaks for all the Trundle players. There are some people who own and play Trundle that like the change, you know.
In no way are we speaking for ALL Trundle fans. That would be impossible, there have already been posts in this very thread from Trundle fans who like the new design.

But ItemsGuy's point that this change is a blatant disregard of the old Trundle fans still stands. Not all Trundle fans are in the ruined forever group, but everyone who is in the ruined forever group is a Trundle fan.


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Mad Hit Monkey

Senior Member

03-27-2013

I would also like to concede one thing, of the people who have argued against the relaunch, you, ItemsGuy, appear to be the most rational.

I'd also like to concede that the arguments you're making are reasonable, though I've been following the thread for a while and you're only reiterating them in a more clear, concise manner.

I'll also concede that I've been a jerk in my responses, and do apologize.

I do not concede, however, that this is something to make a ****-storm over, or at least not yet, and I'd prefer to give the Rioters the benefit of the doubt rather than hammering Guilty at them. They are a video game company, after all.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Having a Champion powered by poop would be unique.

Would it be a good idea?

No.

Uniqueness doesn't necessarily equate with value. That's a fallacy a lot of Trundle fans are making right now.
A champion powered by poop? Don't really see much merit to that. What does poop do? Why would I want control over that?

A champion who has more guts than brains or brawn, who hits people with a club that's about as big as he is, and whose regenerative strength is so powerful that it allows him to shoulder the leprosy of an entire tribe? I'm interested. A champion who uses this leprosy as a weapon against his enemies, shrugging off the pain of constantly decomposing and regenerating and cracking wise all the while? I'm sold. A champion who, despite making this sacrifice for the tribe he's the runt of, is still the butt of all their jokes, yet takes it in stride? Now I'm rootin' for the kid.

There's more than enough beef and brawn in League's roster to go around. Let me have my sarcastic, regenerating underdog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hit Monkey View Post
I would also like to concede one thing, of the people who have argued against the relaunch, you, ItemsGuy, appear to be the most rational.

I'd also like to concede that the arguments you're making are reasonable, though I've been following the thread for a while and you're only reiterating them in a more clear, concise manner.

I'll also concede that I've been a jerk in my responses, and do apologize.

I do not concede, however, that this is something to make a ****-storm over, or at least not yet, and I'd prefer to give the Rioters the benefit of the doubt rather than hammering Guilty at them. They are a video game company, after all.
I'm a game designer. I know a thing or two about game design. I can identify problems when they arise, and why they're problems. Do I happen to also like Trundle? Yes (although I haven't played him since early S3--not terribly much outstanding about his kit, which I think might be the main problem in regards to him being permanently under the radar in NA play). I wasn't interested in Karma whatsoever, though, yet I still spent about 10+ hours in the Karma relaunch thread defending her new visual angle.

If Riot makes a good design decision, I will defend it. If Riot drops the ball, I'm going to speak up. At least, until I finish my MFA and join Riot and can apply a more hands-on approach.

(Thanks for being a good sport, though--you were being a bit of a jerk, but admitting that makes you more professional than the other kids that jump in here and yammer about, regardless of which side of the argument they're on. And yes--I'll probably withhold further judgment than what I've said already until it hits the PBE, if the gameplay/appearance segregation is as bad as I've concluded it is likely to be.)


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Uniqueness doesn't necessarily equate with value. That's a fallacy a lot of Trundle fans are making right now.
So you're saying Trundle isn't valuable?

Maybe it's not that Trundle himself is bereft of value, but rather that you do not value him. Maybe he's just not the kind of character you like. There are over one hundred other unique and equally valuable characters for you to choose from, and more are on the way.


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Holy Malevolence

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Having a Champion powered by poop would be unique.

Would it be a good idea?
Yes.


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Muranodo

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Senior Member

03-27-2013

I've noted largely based off promise and past statements. These do equate to often more emotional appeals. For the more level headed and final product based individuals, these are going to seem more immature or entitled. As such, I try and still give Riot credit like when I initially addressed GrumpyMonkey after his first reply within. However, as one who follows a lot of the content from a tease to a release level I think there has been more than sufficient reveal info to make some early and alarmed comments. There is his signature walk and I admitted to them keeping it but as a result of his physique change mentioned my concern yet. It's why I said it would have made a great and different champion but I do not feel it fits. More involved minds than I have given good reason why.


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PrinceOfTheCrows

Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
Having a Champion powered by poop would be unique.

Would it be a good idea?

No.

Uniqueness doesn't necessarily equate with value. That's a fallacy a lot of Trundle fans are making right now.
(clap) Agree. I'm may have like it better if he was undead or some thing I all was thought with rot and disease(like Twitch.) But I never think of those sort of thing with trolls

Plus all the names fans have gave to his .Pillar of Filth makes me faceplam. I mean some of those are just bad taste.