Journey Into The Freljord III: The Troll King

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PrinceDarknight

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by woopyfrood View Post
Upvoted.

Trundle's current design and themes have a cult following, and this change is a slap to that fandom's face, especially with a "Traditional" skin that just looks like a buff WoW troll that put on a Trundle costume. People who argue against the Trundle fans often use the fact that we're a minority as a justification for trashing his original concept, and that it's more reasonable to make him palatable to the masses than extremely appealing to a niche group. That kind of pro-homogenization thought should be fought against. It is antithesis to art and fandom.

This. I'll still try to withold judgement, but ditching the cool decay/regen, rabid and gross theme of Trundle for a generic ice troll is just...so disappointing.


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The Nice Boat

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Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hit Monkey View Post
I'm trying to really grock this one... So...

This...

http://i.imgur.com/WU0aNuk.gif

A model created in the game's youth, with limitations in technology...

Is somehow better than this...

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....omic_thumb.jpg

A model created when the development team has matured, better skilled, better tech and all?



Am I on Bizzaro Planet?
No, you are on Earth, where we value artistic uniqueness over general and bland aesthetic.


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Hit Monkey View Post
I'm trying to really grock this one... So...

This...

http://i.imgur.com/WU0aNuk.gif

A model created in the game's youth, with limitations in technology...

Is somehow better than this...

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws....omic_thumb.jpg

A model created when the development team has matured, better skilled, better tech and all?



Am I on Bizzaro Planet?

No. The models are not the things that should be compared. Of course a game will acquire a more refined look as it updates. Artistic merit should not be measured in the tools available at the time. That's like comparing cave paintings to Monet. They can both be great, even if one is older and cruder.

The problem is that those two models are conceptually different. Even if they bare the same trappings, they convey different kinds of characters altogether. Rehashing something unique and niche, an outcast runt-of-the-litter troublemaker, into something completely different and rather generic, a brawny king of warriors, is not artistic progression. It's artistic regression: homogenization.


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Aavak

Senior Member

03-27-2013

I assume he's going to get his abilities remade (visually) and renamed to better suit the new theme. Would it be something like:

Decompose = ?
Rabid Bite = Frost Bite
Contaminate = Snow Field
Pillar of Filth = Pillar of Ice
Agony = ?

EDIT: I enjoy the way that w*nkers come on just to downvote page after page. Grow up you tw*ts!


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by woopyfrood View Post
No. The models are not the things that should be compared. Of course a game will acquire a more refined look as it updates. Artistic merit should not be measured in the tools available at the time. That's like comparing cave paintings to Monet. They can both be great, even if one is older and cruder.

The problem is that those two models are conceptually different. Even if they bare the same trappings, they convey different kinds of characters altogether. Rehashing something unique and niche, an outcast runt-of-the-litter troublemaker, into something completely different and rather generic, a brawny king of warriors, is not artistic progression. It's artistic regression: homogenization.
I think "runt of the litter" is held a bit to tightly too. Trundle isn't a kid anymore. I have two dogs, brothers, one was the runt and got destroyed all the time as a pup, now he is the dominate one. Even now Trundle says he is gonna hit you from one fountain to the next.

Why can't Trundle have a rags to riches story?


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Mad Hit Monkey

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgenstien View Post
I was really digging the new default skin until i noticed one feature.
Just one feature feels extremely out of place and is bothering me to no end.
Here's a hint, it's right in the center of his face and looks like it belongs to another species.
His nose? It's large and bulbous, just like usual. I'm not seeing where your issue is.


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
I think "runt of the litter" is held a bit to tightly too. Trundle isn't a kid anymore. I have two dogs, brothers, one was the runt and got destroyed all the time as a pup, now he is the dominate one.

Why can't Trundle have a rags to riches story?
I was merely referencing his lore to help define his physical appearance, which is the main issue I am trying to tackle.

Body shape determines body language and voice, and all together they account for a very large portion of a character's personality. Just by looking at his concept art you could tell that Trundle matched his backstory well, and when you saw him move and heard him speak, you could tell that Trundle matched his backstory perfectly.

I don't think going from that design to a big northern troll king is a rags to riches story, especially without lore support, which would probably feel shoehorned in anyway. The Troll King isn't Trundle finally getting his due, it's Trundle getting replaced.


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Mad Hit Monkey

Senior Member

03-27-2013

I think what a lot of people forget about Trundle being the runt of the litter and how he's such a nice guy is the fact that, in his Judgement, he was given the option of tossing the curse back to his tribe to give their regeneration back, but decided not to,

Quote:
The images flashed unbidden before his eyes - his tribe once again plagued by the debiliating disease, all equally humbled by their affliction. He imagined telling them how this sacrifice saved them all from a potentially worse fate, and his tribe finally seeing him for the savior that he was.

And suddenly, the sting of naiveté that caused him to make this same choice before shattered his train of thought. His decision to bear the burden of disease never changed the fact that he was the runt. Nothing he ever did would change that.

A crooked smile snaked across his misshapen face. "Let them suffer. I'll keep what they so generously gave me."

"So it shall be. Then I will ask you again – why do you want to join the League, if not for a cure?"

"It seems this is the 'cure' I was looking for after all."

"How does it feel, exposing your mind?"

Trundle thought for a long moment. "For once, it felt like I wasn’t alone anymore. Thank you for that."
In this last bit, he cemented that he stopped trying to be their savior. He's not even trying to find a cure for the disease anymore. He's just wants to be accepted. Imagine how becoming the Troll King would have been the method to which he managed it?

But you know, downvote downvote, because Trundle is a beefcake now, and somehow that makes him generic.

I think I'm done trying to convince people that this is not a malicious act by Riot, targeted at everybody who loves Trundle.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
I love that new Trundle design. Ice powers is something I'd like to have. Leprosy? Not so much.
Perhaps you'd like to play as Ashe, Sejuani, Anivia, Nunu, or the up-and-coming Lissandra?

Some people like having super nasty disease powers. These people no longer have options.

Do you see where some of the dissatisfaction may be coming from, here?


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DianasGotSwag

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTome View Post
As a long time Trundle player and fan, I suppose I should weigh in on what I think about the changes so far:

The Good
- Trundle is the Troll King? Awesome. It's nice to see one of my favorite champs in a position of power and importance in the non-League world. Additionally, putting him at odds with Ashe finally gets us a potential antagonist beast race in the Freljord. There's a lot of beastmen from the Frozen North (Cryophoenixs, Yetis, Bear-people) who are all seemingly totally cool with humans ruling the place, which I always found kinda unusual and lame. Having Trundle be the one to stand up and say 'no' to Ashe and Tryn's forced monarchy makes him an important character on the world stage, which I like. Fight the power Trundle!

The Bad
- All of old Trundle's abilities revolved around sickness, which it sounds like they are getting rid of. Pillar of Filth can be easily turned into Pillar of Ice, I guess. But what about Rabid Bite? Contaminate? Agony? Decompose? You can probably make these things Ice-based as well, but the real question is, should you? We have a lot of ice-based champs in the League, but very few plague based ones. Trundle's reliance on sickness made him different from other champs and fit very well with his role as de-buffer and area control. He was a sickly troll who made your team worse at what they did by contaminating the ground under you and giving everybody rabies while beating them with a big club, that's not something you see all that often in League. It seems foolish to replace something unique about Trundle with something generic, even if it is to fit lore.

The OK
- His new looks are odd and not what I'm used to, but I understand. Muscular Buff Trundle may not be the troll I know and love, but it works with his new lore. Non-buff guys can't be king. If that were true, Ezreal would be king. Do you want King Ezreal? I thought not. Since Trundle's a king now, he has to look the part.

- I really hope his skill set still focuses around sustain and de-buffing. It was one of the things that made him an amazing jungler. The Troll belongs in the jungle, Riot! Don't change that!
They could always just follow on from Trundle's current law. Sure they will change things and what I'm suggesting is almost certainly wrong in that say, Trundle goes to Freljord to find a way to lift the curse and ends up as the king of the frost trolls AND that Riot do tend to completely redo things makes it unlikely.