Journey Into The Freljord III: The Troll King

First Riot Post
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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by woopyfrood View Post
His lore made him a sympathetic character in a way that only an underdog can be, and his design conveyed that perfectly.

Granted, he was still a big savage troll, but his scrawny appearance made him relatable. Even if you make the new Trundle have a similar backstory, you're going to lose that sympathetic impact because he's now just another monstrous thug, who no longer fights in spite of having a disadvantage, but instead fights because he has an advantage.
I'm saving a lot of these posts, by the way.

Every champion must have a core--something that shows through in every aspect of design (be it lore, visual appearance, or gameplay)--and the designer's role is to make sure that core is as defined and prevalent as possible, as that's what creates unity. It's a type of caricature that creates content outstanding enough to be iconic (which is important in a game with over 100 playable characters), and with enough direction to allow for strong juxtaposition.

When that core is lost in any aspect of the champion, then a rework is in order--with Karma's relaunch, they attempted to take the core of Karma (spiritual power, Ionian will, inner strength) and make it more apparent in her visual design (unfortunately, the kit wasn't so much of a success--the relaunch team opted for a cookie-cutter-albeit-mechanically-sound solution to an abstract problem, which only served to hurt readability and all that jazz).

However, in Trundle's case, Riot decided that said core wasn't to their liking--and perhaps attributed his poor sales figures to his grody appearance (instead of a generally not-very-outstanding playstyle with little visual impact, and no real defined in-your-face strengths that would give you reason to play him over any other jungler)--so they did away with it entirely in favor of something a bit "safer."

In Karma's case, her fanbase lashed out because something they liked was being taken away--and this was understandable, but it still stood that what they liked got in the way of the champion fulfilling Riot's design criteria (mostly in terms of readability and visual intuitiveness).

In Trundle's case, however, his old visuals matched his current gameplay much more, and while it could've used some tweaks to make him outstanding in terms of gameplay, it's his old core that made him endearing to his playerbase. Could this core have been sold a bit better? Sure--again, mostly gameplay-wise. Riot's decision, however, was to simply go with a "safer" and less niche visual angle, creating a disconnect with the play-patterns created by his kit--and this may not even make that much of a change in terms of his popularity (as if his kit remains unchanged, it will still not give players any real reason to pick him over the more popular junglers, or hell, even the other bruisers in general).

I don't expect Riot to change anything now that they've invested all of this time and work into what they've done. I'm not asking them to. But sit tight, folks, and put away your pitchforks; you might get your underdog Troll back in five or so years (I'll fight for that--from the inside).


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woopyfrood

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Then there are relaunches, where the character can be evolved from all aspects, lore gameplay and art. Karma was our first. Trundle is qualifying as a relaunch since his new base is different enough from his old base to warrant the "traditional" skin.
And that is what I don't like. Why not make it just a visual upgrade?

Nothing was objectively wrong with his original concept, so why throw that away instead of just giving it better graphics?

He was disgusting, scrawny, wild and funny. Not a lot of people were interested in that, but those who were absolutely loved Trundle. Giving him what is essentially a new champion's design is huge disservice to the cult following that liked his punk underdog appearance, and Traditional Trundle does not do them justice.


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Nagor

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Hey GM Can we be expecting any more VU or relaunches or reworks in store for some of the old freljord champs (Anivia Nunu) ?

And hopefully some other juicy things for Freljord?
Keep up the good work at riot I'm always impressed with the things you guys do next and hope I get a reply thanks


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Aacey

Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
What’s this…? Is this… a troll?

What’s a troll doing in the Freljord? Are we… trolling you?

[aws3]news/March_2013/03_25_2013_-_teaser/NewTrundleDance.gif[/aws3]


On a more serious note, some of you will probably guess that if there’s a troll and he’s wielding a club… it’s Trundle! So we wanted to give you a taste of what’s to come, namely Trundle’s relaunch and his reimagining in the icy north.

While old Trundle certainly had a unique narrative and visual design, we always felt he was disconnected from the rest of the world. This inhibited the number of stories we could tell with Trundle and, well, we want to tell stories about him. Trundle’s upcoming changes include a gameplay update (more of a quality improvement than a rework – similar in scope to our Taric changes in [URL2="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeH8HzGi3sc&t=01m57s"]3.03[/URL2]), a new ice-themed aesthetic (if you couldn’t guess), and a new story that ties Trundle to the brewing conflict in the Freljord.

Stay tuned in the coming weeks, because we’ve got plans for Trundle – not to mention that Trundle has plans of his own!

You’ll have to wait to hear more, but here’s something to tide you over. [URL2="http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3224791"]As with Karma’s relaunch[/URL2], anyone who owns Trundle before his relaunch will get this Traditional Trundle (has a nice ring to it) skin for free:

[aws2="news/March_2013/03_25_2013_-_teaser/Trundle_Traditional_Comic.jpg"]news/March_2013/03_25_2013_-_teaser/Trundle_Traditional_Comic_thumb.jpg[/aws2]
a few of questions sins Grumpy Monkey seems to have been here and in the mood to answer them recently.

1. i read earlier that the gifs jaw was you guys having fun in the great spirit of trolling, but but based on trundles current kit that would be more appropriate for him to "bite" people with should i assume since he will no longer have the facial structure to support that action that will be on of the updates?

2. does he still run like old trundlei love the fact that he walked on 3 using his legs and one hand. it was unque, and unless you decide to make a gorilla champ(wukong is the "monkey" king, gorilla are apes, he doesnt count) then i dont see any other way to incorperate it into league.

3. im assuming the rework will include a new Vo and im all fine and dandy with that although i always loved to laugh at trundles lines. i only ask one thing please dont change his champ select line unless you believe it to be a true improvement

other than that with the VUs getting better and better i get more and more excited to see what you do with sion


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Grumpy Monkey

Senior Character Artist

03-26-2013
14 of 15 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edvard Rubeartis View Post
Perhaps its an assumption made by NEW way he looks combined with the added sense of violence from the original Riot post.



From the hints in this post, its hard to get any other picture.

So Riot, it may be a good idea to release that lore sooner than later before the waters of misconception downed everyone, and we become so negatively polarized that we just don't care for the hard work that you have done.
Well, wasn't that story written from Quinn's perspective? Be sure to take that into account.


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Luscious Lenny

Senior Member

03-26-2013

wtf read the title of post

they are currently releasing the lore lol


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chief7

Member

03-26-2013

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_Skin

"Morello has confirmed that Trundle has received a new classic skin as part of his visual upgrade and minor kit rework. His current classic skin has been upgraded, and will be made available as Traditional Trundle in the same manner as Traditional Karma.[20]"

So it looks like we get to keep the old Trundle if we so desire.

This is good will he still run and laugh the same way?


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Vulking

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Senior Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Well, wasn't that story written from Quinn's perspective? Be sure to take that into account.
That doesn't make sense, Quinnis not the kind of person that go around making conjectures and labeling people without a deep analysis, like when she rationalized that Talon wasnt the assassin that Demacia was looking for.

Either, she already did a deep investigation that lead her to the hypothesis that the trolls are planning to go to war now that they have a smart king, or she is completely being portaiyed out of character and calling the troll savage warmongers just because they attacked a camp without investigating further into the reasons why (which I really hope is not the case).


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Edvard Rubeartis

Member

03-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Well, wasn't that story written from Quinn's perspective? Be sure to take that into account.
True dat. But its the only image you guys gave us, and if you had wanted to give us any other one (such as liking the New Trundle), why didn't you?

Or, am I the fool because you WILL give us a different picture, but not now. >.<


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Saint Iggy

Senior Member

03-26-2013

*Takes a deep breath*
I came here ready to yell at Riot for destroying my favorite champion in the entire League. Trundle was the first new champion to be released when I started playing, he has been with me for my entire LoL career. When I saw that Gif I just wrote off the rework as "the thing I get to pretend doesn't exist", now I get here a read all that you guys have had to say and I can now say that while I still hate to see the old Trundle go, I will withhold my judgment for after Riot sends him out to the PBE. Now for all that makes me hate this re-work I am curious as to how his skill set is changing. I know that the skills will not but his QoL is, and in that I never had a complaint with him. People say he is clunky and I never saw it, maybe this is the ramblings of a day 1 Trundle player but I just don't see why he needed anything other then an art re-work. Any feed back from you Grumpy would be a major help.

Edit: Please if someone is going to down vote my post, put a reason why and don't just down vote because you disagree without standing or reason. I for one would love to have a Trundle discussion on his use and play ability.