So, about that Karma leak...

First Riot Post
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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LullabyGaming View Post
I personally don't give a **** about how strong or weak she'll end up becoming.
Karma is one of my absolute favorite champions and this release scares me.
`
I'm mostly worried about the Q change. I love the current Q and I desperately need to know the specifics on how the new Q works. I don't want to hate her because of this change, I really don't.

So could you elaborate a bit on how the Q works? From what I gather it's an AOE that slows and basically gets an extra damage proc after a bit of time. But what are the specifics?

Any current AP ratios on spells? Cooldown on Mantra? Cooldowns on QWE? How about ranges? ETA on PBE release?

These are all pieces of information we who love Karma desperately need, so please at least give us some of this information so we can find peace.

I feel like if the new Q is anything other then a cone I won't like it. It'd just be too much of a change to not have a cone. I'll see once she's on PBE though.


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Orinoko

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Will Karma be keeping up to two max charges on Mantra or has it been reduced to one?


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Piaras

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeolithicMachine View Post
I like the new kit, but one thing bothers me.

Her healing is gone.
This also bothers me, as I was always a fan of support Karma.

I'm okay with everything in the new kit except for W. The new W, while more effective, strikes me as a tad more boring. I wish there was still some form of ally interaction on it, maybe a heal that gives some of Karma's health to allies? Or some kind of crazy ally to enemy tether?

I think the main thing that bothers me is that from a support's perspective she shifted from mitigation/healing to crowd control, and there are plenty of crowd control supports already. While I know some of the game designers have a problem with healing, I though Karma's old kit combined healing and mitigation in a fun way.


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Great Owl

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Ok, mildly annoyed about the loss of heal, majorly pissed about the changes to w, which just makes its a targeted leblanc e, e is fine. This just feels like a new champion. On top of that her skill icons look like generic mage stuff, no real flavor. I think the change to mantra was cool, but q and w just feel like you didnt care. I was excited for this, but unless you give back karma an interaction with the spirit bond, I'm not playing, I don't like it as a plain tether.


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Cynicatt

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03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
I do feel like her old passive was far more unique. A mage that gains power as she loses health was attempted before with Ryze. You could've easily folded the CDR into her ult itself. Would've been cool to see that concept retained. Rest of it sounds good.
I actually agree that they could have easily combined her innate and R and had it work, or at least had it reduce all of her spell cooldowns by a certain amount as well. But her old passive is kind of useless too at the point karma is usually either the last one to die or the first one to be blown up in any teamfight, and doesn't have a way to survive at the same time like Trynd does with his crit chance.


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HeRoed

Senior Member

03-15-2013

i love the new kit omg omg


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ihaveapotion

Senior Member

03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Owl View Post
Ok, mildly annoyed about the loss of heal, majorly pissed about the changes to w, which just makes its a targeted leblanc e, e is fine. This just feels like a new champion. On top of that her skill icons look like generic mage stuff, no real flavor. I think the change to mantra was cool, but q and w just feel like you didnt care. I was excited for this, but unless you give back karma an interaction with the spirit bond, I'm not playing, I don't like it as a plain tether.
this.

also i hope morello will be civil enough to respond to my post to him.


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Koechophe

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03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
You do know Katarina had to be nerfed after the rework because she was so strong? Same with GP after his E changes.

Either way, combing over the power line-by-line is likely a dead-end because of how much has changed. This makes balance and balance predictions difficult for devs and the community
OR, you could have said something about the added range on her Q, the damage to the rooted target on her w (THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH FOR THAT!), the speed boost on her shield, her shield being aoe, her W being now a self heal (so that, for personal usage, she still has a heal) and the new method of reduction in cc for her passive. Any of that stuff.

Also, when kat was relaunched, she had to be nerfed like three times because she was op. How was her kit made weaker?


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Practically

Senior Member

03-15-2013

This is going to be a minor comment but:

I feel like her speed boost being attached to her tether ability was cool. I dunno why, but I liked the idea of being connected to someone and either going runrunrunrunrun or gogoogogogogogo.


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Noblepeasant

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03-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Old Karma had issues. What were they?

Karma’s kit was in a weird place, but her ultimate was especially problematic. Her base abilities didn’t feel impactful and only felt effective when supercharged by Mantra. On top of that, when Karma had two charges of Mantra, we had to make both of them weaker to compensate for players double casting empowered spells.

The changes we made to Karma’s kit focused on making each decision fun and meaningful while giving her abilities the focus they needed to perform her intended role. We kept the “empowering”-type gameplay of Mantra, but instead of waiting around for it to recharge, Karma’s basic attacks and abilities now lower Mantra’s cooldown. This rewards aggressive play so you can “buyback” her ultimate. Also, we gave Mantra a single charge to pump extra power into each cast. We also made sure Mantra empowers Karma’s abilities in drastically different ways, leading to more impactful decision-making and a better feeling of accomplishment when you pull off the right move at the right time.


Why was she hard to place in team comps?

Karma had the offensive tools to support her team in small skirmishes but not the powerful defensive abilities she needed to protect a team. Also, her all-purpose abilities are so broad they never felt like the right choice in any situation. All in all, Karma lacked direction.


Why isn’t Karma fun?

The effectiveness of Karma’s abilities relied too heavily on your teammates knowing all their nuances. No matter how hard you were carrying with Karma, your teammates had to be just as good with her for you to be super effective. When an ally’s confused about whether or not he should run from or pass through your Spirit Bond, we probably made a mistake.


What did we like about Karma?

Despite all the Mantra hate we’ve got going on, we actually think the concept is pretty kickass. It’s unique and character-defining to old Karma, and augmenting her abilities with an immense surge of Ionian will is visually and thematically fun. We also liked how Karma could turn the tables on her opponents with abilities that provided defensive bonuses and had hidden offensive power. Finally, Spirit Bond’s “clothesline” gameplay is really cool, but it’d work better on a tank champion that has an easier time jumping into the fray.


Karma’s new role

Originally envisioned as a support, Karma’s fringe successes actually came from players using her in the top or mid lanes as an AP burst mage with support abilities, much like Zilean or Morgana. We like this direction and want to encourage you to boost both her offensive and support abilities by building AP. We also want to make sure she can hold her own as a solo or with a lane partner.

Finally, we’ve updated her skills so allies are reliant on Karma, but Karma’s not reliant on them. She’s got enough power at her fingertips to feel strong as a mage or as a support without teammates having to work in perfect concert for you to be effective.


So without further ado… here’s Karma’s new kit:


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Passive.jpg[/aws3]

Passive: Gathering Fire – Hitting enemy champions with Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_R.jpg[/aws3]

R: Mantra – Empowers Karma’s abilities, adding an extra effect to the next ability cast.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Q.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_Q_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

Q: Inner Flame – Skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Soulflare – Increases damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_W.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_W_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

W: Focused Resolve – Enemy-targeted tether that deals damage over time. If the tether is unbroken after a short duration, the tethered target is rooted in place.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Renewal – Deals bonus damage and heals Karma for the duration of the tether.


[aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_E.jpg[/aws3][aws3]news/March_2013/03_15_2013_Karma_Relaunch/Karma_E_Empowered.jpg[/aws3]

E: Inspire – Shields an ally and grants them a short speed boost.
  • Empowered by Mantra: Defiance – Enemies near the shielded ally are damaged while nearby allies are shielded and granted a short speed boost.

Im really excited to try her out