Let's talk about Champ Select

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Ctta0s

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsMinecraft View Post
That doesn't work. Checking off multiple roles is just going to lead to the same kind of confrontation that we see now.

In order to reduce their queue time people will just check off "mid" and "support" with no intention of actually playing support, then you'll have two of them in the same lobby and they'll both argue over which one gets to be mid.
Not true. As I stated, each player is assigned a lane by the system when they get into the lobby. So if a player checked support and says "hey, I'm going mid noobs", the system will have indicated that the player should have been support. Players could then report other players for not playing their selected position (and this information would appear in Tribunal as well).


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IAMTHEONEANDONLY

Junior Member

03-13-2013

For ranked specifically, have you considered how Duo Queuing affects behavior? I find that duo queuers are always causing trouble. This was not much of an issue in the past, but since you changed duo queue to always force the lower elo of the 2 into last pick it seems to cause so many problems. I only enjoy playing the game with friends, so I always duo queue. But neither me or my friend enjoy playing support EVERY SINGLE GAME. This leads to a situation where at the start of the game we have to ask if anyone will play support instead of the last pick. Most of the time no-one does and we are stuck with support. Many duo queuers are not like this though, and will just pick anything when it comes to last pick because they are always bottom.

I think you should either remove ranked duo queue completely or fix it to at least give the lower ELO player a fair chance of not being last pick.

In regards to your 3 commonly suggest solutions, they are all terrible (probably why riot have avoided this issue for so long) as pointed out by the 100s of cons that people have already discussed.


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Wicker Fence

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarkanadushak View Post
yet still doesn't solve what i believe to be one of the core problems, which is people first and foremost rush to call their favorite role by spamming 3 letters as fast as possible rather than putting up anything more informative that takes longer to type, which is y an inbuilt feature to leave a premade message could encourage so much more co-operation by removing the time stress between the 3 people wanting to put "mid" as fast as possible because they only play mid and one other role but typing "mid or top" would take longer and they would probably have both called out from under them if they tried
I did not read all the pages but to put it simply. This would enforce a set meta, this is bad in two ways, different areas have different meta suck as NA vs EU. Additionally, the system is a living meta, it can be tweaked or completely changed on a game by game basis.

Secondly, this can be easily abused. Let's say you queue up as support but when the time comes you can pick ADC.

Cheers,
Fence


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
41 of 55 Riot Posts

I'm heading back to work for now, but I've seen some really interesting ideas and have a lot to talk about with davin, statuskwoh and the rest of the player behavior team. We will definitely keep tabs on this thread for new discussion points.

It's been pretty valuable touching base with the players to see what's important to you, and what types of problems and concerns you feel strongly about. Doing nothing about Champ Select is probably not the right approach. This is something I hope the player behavior team can tackle in the future.


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DrUnne

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I'm heading back to work for now, but I've seen some really interesting ideas and have a lot to talk about with davin, statuskwoh and the rest of the player behavior team. We will definitely keep tabs on this thread for new discussion points.

It's been pretty valuable touching base with the players to see what's important to you, and what types of problems and concerns you feel strongly about. Doing nothing about Champ Select is probably not the right approach. This is something I hope the player behavior team can tackle in the future.
Thank you as well for taking the time to speak with us about this, Lyte!


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Shanst

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Hm, this is a neat idea. I'd have to spend more time thinking it through, but this would diffuse responsibility instead of the entire team hinging heavily on how the Captain structures the draft. Because every team member has a voice in the draft, it might encourage players to feel more invested into their team composition.

Lots to consider with this idea.
To iterate on this, I think each person should get a ban. It should go down the list like choosing a champ would, but instead it would be a ban per player and then move into champ select. That way no one feels like a game was lost because an "OP" champ was left unchecked and it also gives some more time for team strats to be discussed.


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The Fatalii

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Why cant we just add the WoW Finder has a separate option but still leave Duo/Solo????????


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ThisIsMinecraft

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Can somebody tell me exactly what is so bad about simply implementing the "pick order" rule?

I mean, the majority of ranked players already go by this rule, and it seems to be the simplest way to just get people into games in a reasonable amount of time. You join a game, you pick what you want when it's your turn, and the chat box is there if you wish to communicate with your team over who does what.

You don't need to create some complicated and untested new infrastructure, you basically just reinforce what the majority of the community already agrees with.


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Delta Sniper

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I'm heading back to work for now, but I've seen some really interesting ideas and have a lot to talk about with davin, statuskwoh and the rest of the player behavior team. We will definitely keep tabs on this thread for new discussion points.

It's been pretty valuable touching base with the players to see what's important to you, and what types of problems and concerns you feel strongly about. Doing nothing about Champ Select is probably not the right approach. This is something I hope the player behavior team can tackle in the future.

But But this idea.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Sniper View Post
So i have been thinking about this with a friend on the way to his house to do some of our own game development and here is a solution we came up with.

Group 5 random people with similar ELO. Essentially you want to group two groups of 5 with similar elo so you can pit them against each other.

Put these people in a chat room with their names as player 1, player 2, etc... So they cant look you up on LOLking.

Put the vote kick button in here and also put a timer in here of say 2 minutes. Allow the people to talk about what they are wanting to play and get to know each other and the positions they want to play.

Give them a ready button and a leave button A small penalty for leaving depending on how fast they leave within the 2 minutes. after the two minutes are up if not all 5 have said ready give them 10 more seconds to hit ready.

Now this is the kicking system. If they dont hit ready after the 10 seconds kick them from team but dont disband the team, Do the same thing if 4 of 5 feel like kicking the 5th player. Key here is to not disband team. send in another random and give them 1 or 2 more minutes to talk with this guy probably 2 minutes.

If they kick a total of 2 or 3 people then disband their team because they are most likely looking for one role say mid and will continue to kick until they get one.

Now you go to champion select with your 5 once a team has been made, along with another 5 obviously.

You can finally show names and people can pick what they want as they are doing currently maybe decrease timers between stages.

Make the dodge penalty in here SEVERE. And remove the vote-kick button. This should make people show more trust in their teammate who most likely knows what they are doing. and reduce people from dodging because i picked rammus support who i could be a beastly support with.

Edit: This is a Strict Ranked system it would need to be adjusted a lot for normals.


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MexiCANcer

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Junior Member

03-13-2013

This is an interesting issue that is hard to solve but still needs to be addressed. Right now i agree that toxic players have an advantage in champ select due to the fact that most people would be willing to give up there spot and have a chance to win rather then have someone throw the game and have no chance to win. Also like mentioned in an earlier post the fact that the toxic player is most likely never going to be grouped with these people again makes it just that much easier.

So to help solve this problem i think it might be a good idea to make it so you have a higher chance to be paired with someone in your league. This would do a few things.

1st it would make it so you would get to know the players in your league if you see them in more and more of your games. This would also lead to more accountability for your actions if your more likely to run into said person again.

2nd it would help improve the community. Right now everyone is just a nameless mass. i don't know anyone i play with but if i were to see the same people every few games i might remember that he liked to play jungle and was rather good at it so i might defer the role to him. Also i might like how said person plays and add him to my friends list or vise versa know that he is a rager and it would be a idea to make comments about his play even if they are not meant to helpful not hurtful.

3rd I think it would make the game more entertaining. You might develop a rivalry with anther fellow top laner and compete with him for advancement. Or you might get excited when you see that you got into the same game with the support that helped you crush your lane. I think it just has the potential to make the game more enjoyable.

Now i know this wouldn't solve the problem but i think it might be a step in the right direction to make a stronger community and a community that isn't faceless but one where you get to know the people you play with. Anyways that just my 2 cents.