Let's talk about Champ Select

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DrUnne

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Practically View Post
What you're trying to do is design a game feature that influences variables outside the client that is LoL, and unless you can find a way to reach out to every player and have them vent to you, I don't think that's entirely possible.

The whole vote-kick thing sort of gives people a "time out" effect though. After so many times of being kicked out of champ select because he/she was a ****, then they'd get the picture.
But what happens when said person was kicked out because they wanted to play something that wasn't "meta" or a "popular" pick? Not because they were being toxic but simply because they wanted something different?

Or when they aren't very good at the game and someone posts their stats in the pre-game chat?

Or when the enemy team is a better comp then their team and they create a scape goat to kick?


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Eiales

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

I'd like to see a lobby where you can try to assemble a team without too much regard for who will be playing what. Essentially you'd first try to agree on which champions you want your team to have, before working out which player is going to play which champion. In my mind it makes the solo-queue lobby more like a ranked team or tournament lobby, which I think promotes cooperation and is generally desirable. There are obvious difficulties combining this with the limited champion pool model LoL uses, but are there any other problems with this? Is it too focused on the competitive mindset, leaving little room for the "I just want to play X champion" guys? What if it only applied to ranked/maybe normal draft?


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March of Dimes

Senior Member

03-13-2013

First of all, I'd like to say that this should all be solved upstream of the solutions offered (which I'll get to) by allowing someone to report in champ select, providing those chat logs to tribunal, and by finally taking a stance on pick order vs call order. Your example of "bad day" vs "toxic behavior" is quite possible, but how do we know whether it's just that bad day, or whether it's a recurring thing? Also in your example, the whole problem (like most) was started by someone calling a role when they don't have pick priority. You won't always get your way under pick order, but at least it's a system that doesn't cater to the source of the grief (the callers). None of this comes to the exclusion of compromise and discussion either, it would simply be there as a last resort. (Also, in case there's disagreement over who causes the grief, let me put it this way: is there ever a time a caller will believe he shouldn't get his way? No, and this is why they're the cause of the grief even though it may "take two to tango", as they say.)

Anyway, onto the solutions:
1) Vote kick: I honestly think this would be abused & is a worse solution than offering reports in champ select. Maybe if there was some score attached to it, such that players who are frequently voted to be kicked would actually be kicked, but not the person who simply wanted to play Karma one time when the rest of the team decided that was trolling.

2) Dungeon Finder: This would be amazing! Instead of queueing for role, you queue for lane (solo top, solo mid, carry bot, support bot, jungle). This would assume less about the meta (namely, your team has exactly 1 jungle, mid is a solo lane, and one of the duos goes 0 cs). Of course, I know Riot doesn't want to impose a meta, but these are very minimal and things you'd already get reported for not doing anyway. (Why do you feel people call mid? It's because they believe only 1 person goes there. Same deal for the other assumptions). If you want to run an off-standard laner? Just queue for the lane same as anyone playing standard would - this doesn't pigeonhole you into a role-determined meta. Would this slow queue times? Sure, but it'd be worth it for a lot of players.

3) Prisoner's Island: This would probably work well, but I'm skeptical of the players' judgment (as in #1). Again, you could account for this with an appropriate threshold before action is taken. I think it would be good to let people know when they've fallen into the toxic queue, but maybe it would be better to leave them in the dark as to prevent them from making smurfs.

Lastly, a great idea I saw elsewhere in the thread: Obscure names in champ select to prevent griefing based on lolking stats or the similar.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
38 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broney View Post
On an unrelated side note but in the vein of improving player options, if you ever increase bans to 5 per team, would it be reasonable to give 1 ban to each player instead of having the "captain" have full control? That way they can ban the characters they dislike playing against or added communication allows the team to pick things as a whole, and people have a harder time arguing that the whole ban period was "wasted".

This might just end up with "all the other bans but mine were stupid", and more likely to screw over a teammate, I suppose, but it was a thought.
Hm, this is a neat idea. I'd have to spend more time thinking it through, but this would diffuse responsibility instead of the entire team hinging heavily on how the Captain structures the draft. Because every team member has a voice in the draft, it might encourage players to feel more invested into their team composition.

Lots to consider with this idea.


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Darkwahn

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Just to clear things up, Bronze players are not more likely to be toxic or candidates for Prisoner's Island. Last I checked, toxic behavior has a pretty similar distribution across skill levels with some spikes here and there.
Where, generally are the spikes located?


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Utensil

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think all of those options just open up more for toxic players/intentional trolls.

1) Vote Kick - 4 man premades are the obvious abuse scenario, but on the other end there is a "let's kick X player because their team comp looks way better" type of thing. Also, the amount of people being kicked would probably delay games more than dodging currently does.

2) WoW Dungeon Finder - Not really a good idea at all. Longer queue times for one, but what about that player that gets top (and only knows the one champ he wants to play top with) but his champion that he wanted to play is banned out or picked by the opposing team, now he still has to go top with a huge disadvantage. This could also affect lane swapping and doing 2v1's top/bot/mid. This probably reduces team communication because people don't have to talk to their team about what they should do or anything. League of Legends is always evolving, the meta changes and people like do do different things, this idea says you're going ADC and Support bot lane and AP Mid etc...

3) Prisoner's Island - Probably the worst idea. For one, once you're there, there is no getting out so you're stuck with those people. The other side of it is many people don't realize they are toxic and are in favor of this idea, so when they get put there they will become even more toxic and make their situations worse. There would probably be 10x more threads about it than the "why did I get banned" threads.

TL/DR All of these are bad ideas that can be abused or cause more toxicity in a game.


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Perhaps it's been too long since I played WoW, but I remember the WoW Dungeon finder working a little differently.

Basically we could enter ourselves to play a role or multiple roles, I played a level 80 shaman and 80 Pally, so I would put ranged dps/heals/tank since I could heal on either, ranged shaman dps and tank pally.

Someone would see enough people in the window and begin inviting people to a group, they'd ask me to often fill, and I would. Group goes well and I get some Blues.

So, why can't we have a group finder that doesn't match us up, but allows players to build their own teams. Instead of roles we can input text. "Mid/Assassin", "Top or ADC", "Sup or Jung", "Bruiser Bot", etc, etc. It also puts our tiers next to us so that we know who are inviting, don't want a Gold in my Bronze Queue so that I don't have to play Silvers, etc.

Then someone comes along and asks me to fill, because I fill most, then I sit in group, we talk and agree, kick any ragers/toxics, then queue. We are matched by Net MMR so we should go into the Solo/Duo matchmaking.

This allows freedom to not have META, and gives us a working team before Queue. Done.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

03-13-2013

What if you had the Dungeon Finder system like this:

You have SIX options to select from:

1. Top Lane
2. Jungle
3. Mid Lane
4. Duo Lane-Carry
5. Duo Lane-Support
6. Anti-Meta

If you select options 1-5, you are matched up with the other 4 of 1-5.

If you choose option 6, you are matched up with 4 other players that selected option 6.


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Nietono

Member

03-13-2013

Instead of just theorycrafting go test it on pbe, if it fails either find the problems and fix or ditch it


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DonVadim

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...6#post33738076

Here is my idea how to fix the current problems, this is rough design that should be polished.

If that's too much you should at least do WoW dungeon finder. Vote kick can be abused by trolls, prison island is partially something i have invented, however my invention is a little bit more complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
What if you had the Dungeon Finder system like this:

You have SIX options to select from:

1. Top Lane
2. Jungle
3. Mid Lane
4. Duo Lane-Carry
5. Duo Lane-Support
6. Anti-Meta

If you select options 1-5, you are matched up with the other 4 of 1-5.

If you choose option 6, you are matched up with 4 other players that selected option 6.
This could work aswell. Honestly, when was the last time you played something unconventional on solo queue and it worked because it was strong instead of enemies being much weaker than your team ? Yeah that's right... Metagame rules should be standarised and people who want to try "new" things should do it with other people who wants that or on premades.