Let's talk about Champ Select

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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
There's some pretty good ideas in this thread, actually. The question of how big of a deal meta enforcing is is worth approaching. From this thread, there's definitely some people who are strongly against that idea. Creating a state where new strategies can not emerge is creating its own special problem that we are very sensitive to. Any solutions we apply should still allow for player flexibility in choosing how they want to play the game.
You have balanced the game around that Meta. Every game and every meta for the longest time has 1 bruiser, 1 mage, 1 jungler, 1 support, 1 adc. Even the games you see at tournaments now where they try to "break" it, they don't. They just switch the lanes around. There is still the jungler, there is still the ADC + Support lane. So even when people attempt to "break" the meta, they are still abiding to it. Example, I have done games as Mordekaiser bot with a Lulu support provided the enemy support is melee. I still took the role of the ADC. There really isn't anything to enforce, anything that is not the 1-1-1-1-2 setup is instantly considered to be trolling. The community enforces itself.

What you need to concern yourself with, is people abusing such a system to troll further. Example, queueing as a support then picking something that is not, or not playing in a supporting way. People already abuse the tribunal in a similar fashion and you have yet to fix that.


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MephyRunsAllDay

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potato of War View Post
What if we just had a bit of time to chat with our team BEFORE clicking on the accept/decline button? With some limit to decline (something like after 5 declines you must wait 5 minutes to queue again).
Player1: "can I go mid?"
Player2:"I prefer top"
Player3:"MID OR FEED"
*anyone but Player3 clicks decline*

edit - and of course, Player1 could say he don't need to go mid and let P3 go mid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlightlySuicidal View Post
actually this is the best iteration i've heard.

you get communication and no BS. hide summoner names too during that so no one can beat off to the lolking stats. it might take a little while for a game to get started, but no longr than actually picking the champs then having some dbag dodge it.
Unburying


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Chrix

Senior Member

03-13-2013

@Lyte I think that your never going to please the community as a whole. What I mean by this is that if you add a specific role select system there will be players that disagree and don't like the idea of a set meta. Furthermore, If you add a vote to kick system in the pre-game lobby you will have players who will disagree with this because of the premades having too much power.

In reality there is not much you can do at Riot to solve the issue of toxic players. This is an online game, there will always be trolls and toxic players. For some odd reason they find enjoyment out of acting in such a harsh manner.


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Incinerate

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I would really like a role queue system. Support/Top/Adc/Jungler/Mid is the standard because it maximizes potential gold gain. The community has held onto this meta with an iron fist, and I doubt that is going to change.

If I want to do something unconventional like duo bruiser bot I get flamed anyway by not only my team but also by the enemy team. If I do well, the enemy team will report me. If I do bad, my team will report me. Meanwhile, both teams are yelling in all chat confirming each others wishes to report me at the very beginning of the game. ADD A ROLE QUEUE SYSTEM OR A GIANT LOBBY IN WHICH WE CAN CHOOSE OUR TEAM MATES!!


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C4KE

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
This is pretty interesting. I suspect you'd want the system to automatically provide popular templates or the like in order to not create a giant burden on new players.
A few people have suggested something of the sort, and I would agree with them. Having something like a pregame message, or portraits of the champs you were thinking of playing are also some great ideas. I think this is the best approach. You guys should really start here.


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YoshioPeePee

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman Fizz View Post
I'd like to see better ways of letting players communicate their champ select preferences with other players. Right now the only way is to just type it in chat which leads to people racing to type "mid" first and just causes lots of arguments. It'd be neat if there was a way to automatically display a player's preferences next to their name on the left of the screen, but in a way that DOESN'T make any mention of lanes whatsoever. I have two ideas that would do that:

1. Allowing a player to go into their profile and pick a few champions as their favorites. When entering into a queue, the portraits of the 3 (or some other number) champions that they marked as their favorite would show up next to their name in the lobby and be immediately visible to everyone, without having to type out anything.

So if I were to go into champion select doing this, by my name it'd show the portraits for Fizz, Twitch, and Draven and people getting into a lobby with me would instantly be able to see that those are my favorite 3 champions.

2. This is very similar to the first idea, but rather than using champions, a player would select a few of the tags Riot uses to classify champions (assassin, support, jungler, fighter, etc.) and those tags would display by their name in the lobby, or there could be another option that just says "no preference" as well. This way a player would have a way to immediately show his teammates what type of champions he prefers to play without locking those types into a specific lane or role.

So if I went into a game, the other players would easily be able to see that I prefer to play Assassins the most, Carries second, and Supports third.

I'd want a feature like this to be picked by the player and not just automatically generated based off their number of games played or win rates though. Especially if there isn't a large sample of games played by the person, it wouldn't be as accurate as just letting the player pick their preferences themselves. It might also be a good idea to give players one option to say a champion or role that they DON'T like playing or are bad at. So, if someone isn't good at jungling they could easily communicate that to their team.

I think this would accomplish a similar goal to the Dungeon Finder idea but with less drawbacks.
i really love this idea


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shufti

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Could I get a comprehensive answer as to why you guys don't implement a lane picking option? Top, Mid, Jungle, Bot Carry, Bot Support, Everything would be the options. You can choose a primary and secondary assignment and the matchmaker finds a game for you based on that.
This still allows teams to have a very unique team composition if they so desire, but the vast, vast majority of games are played the "standard" way. I don't think this implementation would change that one bit.

And one more thing. Ranked play is about improving oneself, yes? In pro play, every player has one lane assignment that they always play on, because if everyone on the team specializes in his role, everyone is very good. Therefore, enabling players to always get the role that they want to in order to improve themselves would help foster a more competitive environment.


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Adeafpony

Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
There's some pretty good ideas in this thread, actually. The question of how big of a deal meta enforcing is is worth approaching. From this thread, there's definitely some people who are strongly against that idea. Creating a state where new strategies can not emerge is creating its own special problem that we are very sensitive to. Any solutions we apply should still allow for player flexibility in choosing how they want to play the game.
Every decision you make is going to have pros and cons. Give a match making system that says "Yes i agree to the meta" and a regular queue for those who don't agree.

If matchmaking is taking to long then give a prompt that tells them this and offers to put them in the meta match making/let them keep waiting.

Also with the pick/call order dilemma sometimes no decision is worse than a wrong decision. The community is very split on this and it causes trolling, raging, afking etc and just want a simple "It's XX order".

Set up a list of pros and cons to each tool you're thinking about using and pick the one with most pros and least cons relative to your goal!


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for real

Member

03-13-2013

this quote from the reddit side of this lovely discussion accurately describes the root of most of my experiences in ranked, from both sides.

I can totally understand those feels though. Some guy calls mid, ends up picking like warwick or something and you are left playing a weaker position usually bot with a lane partner who is likely actually mentally handicapped and both mid and bot get crushed because of it and you are left sitting there watching your two teammates get slapped with a trout while whatever you do is not enough to matter. You just sort of resign yourself to your fate and lube up your ass for the oncoming wave of rape headed your way and pray it doesn't last too long.
I have no problem playing support, I actually do it quiet often of my own choosing. Usually though if we don't have a clear carry or or carry seems mentally unable to tie there shoes let alone play the game I just don't want to support. For the duo lane if your partner isn't atleast passable at the game playing support is one of the most depressing things ever.
If you play support "right" but your carry sucks you just feel helpless in large part because you are helpless. If you go agressive and just try to go AP you are blamed for your carry being made of suck and fail.
Its a total lose/lose and at really no fault of your own. I almost wish you could que as "preferred role/s" such as me personally I could que as mid or support as those are the roles I tend to play. Where as someone else could que as carry, top, mid, jungle, or whatever else. Basically anything to reduce the team of 4 people arguing over who gets a solo lane.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
32 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootyMcGunshot View Post
Why does RL-context matter?
Just because someone has had a bad day should be no excuse for them to start raging at somebody.

If I have a bad day at work and come home and beat my wife would I get away with it just because I had a bad day? Hell no.

If someone comes into the game and is an arse they should be justly reported & warned.
RL context isn't an excuse for players to behave negatively or in a toxic way; however, RL context is an important variable that designers need to consider when designing a game because RL context can influence how players play the game.

The question is, "Is it possible to design a game feature that reduces the impact of RL context?"