Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Incinerate

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Hey Lyte, this thread I created touches some of the problems I personally experience in champ select http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...hlight=support

To summarize, I find champion select incredibly volatile because in my current MMR everyone fights over mid or top. From now on unless things change, i'm going to be committed to only supporting/filling because I just can't tolerate the tension it brings despite hating support (hopefully my views will change). For example, nearly every game my team members fight over mid or top. There is this dual ordeal. I enjoy playing mid/adc/top, but hate having to argue and its effects (bringing team morale down). I do not like to support, but I find the game environment much more easy going when I do support


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spookyz

Junior Member

03-13-2013

There's so much throwing around of this word 'toxic.' Yet there's never a real clear definition of it. It's like what 'trolling' has become, trolling USED to be someone doing something explicitly to exert some kind of negative reaction from someone else, now it ranges from anyone not taking things seriously to someone doing poorly to the prior definition and everything in between.

So, what is 'toxic' really? Is toxic saying to someone who is 0-3 in the first 10 minutes of the game, "hey *xxxxx*, stop feeding"? Is toxic saying "comon *xxxxx* stop being a dip****"? Is toxic saying "really *xxxxx*, I'm going to f*** your mother and slap your sister"?

I've heard people who break the meta described as toxic, people who do poorly described as toxic, people who razz people who might not be doing too well as toxic, so is it basically anyone who isn't using the queen's english and many emoticons such as '3' and "D? I think this is all really a moot point, to some degree, because there are 0 definitions (and are purely subjective) of what the 'problem' actually is. Everyone has a theory of what their 'problem' is yet everyone seems to have a different picture in their head of what that is.

**Disclaimer: not to say there aren't clear cut examples everyone can get behind, such as someone freaking out they didn't get mid and going AP Riven with Revive/Smite and going AFK, but those are hardly the lion's share of the problem.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

@Riot, why is this going ignored??

Here's my solution to champion select. Simply add the pre-game and post game chat to the Tribunal and wait and see if that fixes anything. Currently there is 0 incentive for me to be nice in the champ select because I can either get what I want, or I can make them dodge and try again. They can always report me, but when it gets to the tribunal, who's to say that it's even legit that I trolled them? Adding the pre-game chat however, and suddenly you get some context. You get context to maybe why people played poorly (i.e, they got stuck with a role they mentioned to their team they weren't very good/fond of), why they weren't the happiest in game (someone raged at them for locking in w//e), and most importantly, you give the solo players protection from Quad Queu of doom where they force you into a position you don't want to play, or trolling you when you are first pick/first ban first call and you lock in something that they wanted to play.

TL;DR - Pre-game chat and Post Game chat. See what results that yields first. Get the hidden toxics out of the game.


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Rizmiester

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Lyte,

Has anyone suggested disabling chat in champion select until all the picks are made? What are the pros/cons in your opinion?


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RyuuMasken

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter900 View Post
I don't know how much this would help, but by prioritizing people you've won a game with and telling the player that they won a game with that other person, I feel that it would help. It would overall give players more trust in their teammates. Just a thought though I think it would work. Any feedback would be nice.

(I'd really like a response from Davin or Lyte!)
this is a great idea


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KAOChosen

Senior Member

03-13-2013

so, i have an idea for ranked, that is a bit crazy. what if, the lobby happens BEFORE the game starts. as in, you (and a buddy) get qued up, and it puts you in a chat channel, where the other 3-4 join over time. Then, you have time to talk and say "i can play X Y Z" as a team, with what general picks you want already in mind, without the pressure of a clock on you to make a coherrent team. Then, after the game the team would remain together, if everyone was happy with each other, they play again, already knowing a bit of everyones playstyle. The toxic players would leave (or be kicked) and it could still be 4 of the same people with 1 new person. then, when done, everyone just says GG and leaves.

TL; DR have "soloque teams"

Pros:
Become familiar with your team mates playstyle.
Pretty likely to become friends with people if you play with them succesfully 2 - 3 times.
Makes it more possible to have "nonmeta" team comps. game 2, the mid from last game can go "do you guys trust me? i want to go urgot mid"
People can be stubborn and only want to play one role, without having to branch out. if they want, they can only play the games where they get the role they want.
ranked 5 teams could evolve out of a certain group of people, either naturally, or after a course of so many games.

Cons;
games will obviously take MUCH longer to get underway. not 100% a bad thing, since ranked is supposed to be well practice, well thought out, competitive play. maybe not a direct solution to solo que, but it could be a middle ground between soloque and ranked 5.
People can be stubborn and only want to play one role, without having to branch out. if they want, they can only play the games where they get the role they want. could be bad, so ill mention it.
trolls can still exist. just because someone takes the time to talk to the team doesnt mean at the last second they wont go " F U guys teemo mid lolololo" which would probably feel awful after 5 min of prep work.

Thanks in advance to any reds who actually read this.


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Hexenir

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I'll probably make another post later, but I want to give an input about the three main ideas:

Vote kick: I like this. While I agree that the 5th pick might be somewhat more likely to be bullied (but they/we already are anyways, so...), this would give a huge weapon against trolls. People are STILL being hostages in champion select by having to work around a guy who said 'mid or feed'. Or is just flaming and bullying everyone.

WoW Dungeon Finder: aw please no. Aside from the queue timers - in WoW, entire parties are completely shut down because there are no healer/tank in the game. While this might not happen in the same level here as there, it's still a risk.
Also, I for one don't like the idea of having to stick to a position. Imagine the scene: you pick a position, go to champion select. The enemy picks a champion you're really weak against. What do you do? If you say nothing, you will lose and be flamed in game. If you say something, people will say that you asked for that position now you have to suck it up.
I don't like thinking about it.

Prisoner’s Island: I have mixed feelings about this. As an neutral positive player, this sounds awesome. But then I remember that some poor soul will have to face 4-5 hardcore trolls in their games, and I feel bad for them, since I can barely deal with one. So I can't outright support this idea, but I won't complain about it either.


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Malrock3

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Mode View Post
Davin, I think you're over thinking this.

Assuming a lane-queue system is in place, why would someone be any more unhappy with what champ you select than they would be now?

And if a vote-kick system doesn't exist, and I think this is a good reason why it shouldn't, those unhappy players can't do anything about it to disrupt the game that they can't already do now.

From what I've seen, what specific champ people select isn't even an issue. The issue is people just want to play the lane they're best at. A simple lane queuing system is all we need IMO.
I was thinking something similar in response to his post.


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davin

Senior User Researcher

03-13-2013
27 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faemles View Post
Ok im getting the feeling that Riot doesn't like any of these ideas as you guys have had reasons they are not a good thing to implement. All I know is something needs to change. What other or variations of these ideas have you guys been throwing around.

I personally like the idea for queing for certain rolls as long as i can pick multiple rolls/all of them. I do think if you go in this direction you will need to also add the kick option as it opens a whole new way tp troll in matchmaking like queing up for adc and picking evelynn or something like that.

About the meta being cemented I dont think thats such a big problem in solo/duo que as i cant remember the last time anyone seriously broke the meta in a laneing sense (beside adc/support top)you could also offer the option to que up normally.
There's some pretty good ideas in this thread, actually. The question of how big of a deal meta enforcing is is worth approaching. From this thread, there's definitely some people who are strongly against that idea. Creating a state where new strategies can not emerge is creating its own special problem that we are very sensitive to. Any solutions we apply should still allow for player flexibility in choosing how they want to play the game.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenGaming View Post
What about more suddle options? Less aimed at changing the flow of champion select, but more restrictions/visibility on the negative players end?

Give the player the ability to see how frequently he's reported, maybe a visual indicator in the matchmaking lobby percentage based or otherwise. (Not shown across the entire lobby, as then people would gang up on folks with a poor percentage, but a value only the player can see.)

Different report % ratios could correlate to IP gains for the player.
I.E reported in 50% of your games, 50% of IP earned.
+25-50% IP gained if your report ratio is low

thoughts?



IP restrictions for "X" % of reports
Love this idea.