Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Giga Mode

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
How do you ensure that the people you are teamed with are fine with what you're taking? Not everyone may want an assassin mid, and could get annoyed if the "Lane Chooser" queue gives them a "bad" result.

Though, the counterpoint is that from research we actually know that in general players just want a viable team, period, and that the standard meta isn't really the only thing that determines if they're happy with a lineup. And that's especially true at less intense tiers of play, as you suggest.
Davin, I think you're over thinking this.

Assuming a lane-queue system is in place, why would someone be any more unhappy with what champ you select than they would be now?

And if a vote-kick system doesn't exist, and I think this is a good reason why it shouldn't, those unhappy players can't do anything about it to disrupt the game that they can't already do now.

From what I've seen, what specific champ people select isn't even an issue. The issue is people just want to play the lane they're best at. A simple lane queuing system is all we need IMO.


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Xarkanadushak

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

we have status messages people on our friends list can see, i know its not a fix all solution but y can't we have a lobby message that is displayed under our summoner name that we can set so people can put:
"top > mid > jungle >adc > support"
"top or mid will not jungle"
"good support but need u to pick me blitzcrank"
"i can do any role"
"willing to fill but my top is cringe worthy"
"best support leblanc na check my lolking"

etc.

again i know this won't fix everything, but it removes the necessity to rush-spam chat in order to claim call order and gives people time to pre-type a message beforehand (i know you can copy paste but not everyone does), which will hopefully encourage people to type more detail because they aren't trying to spit out 3 letters as fast as humanly possible.

if riot is concerned about profanity or it being used for stupidity than maybe just make it a dropdown list of roles
"top > mid > jungle >adc > support"


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CaesarFlickerman

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think the same dungeon finder technology that would be implemented should be translated into a language preference. My GOD, that would save so much grief.

and Riot could state pick order > call order all they want, doesn't mean people will abide by it.


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SN4KECH4RMER

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
This is definitely something to be cognizant of with any solution that is role/lane/champ pre-call based. There's a decently-sized chunk of players who are happy to do whatever the team needs. Reactive picking is also a core component of the game when it comes to Draft Pick.
What about having an additional role called "Filler"(Or some other really cool name) for those individuals? You could possibly reward them in some small way for their willingness to be flexible. Plus there might be some indirect benefit of faster queue times because you aren't looking for a specific role.


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Norebert

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Lane Preference Queue:
When queuing you get asked which Roles you are willing to play (a list of checkboxes). The matchmaking system then takes that info and ensures a team of 5 is created where each Role is willing to be covered by at least 1 player.

  • Damage / Top Lane
  • Damage / Mid Lane
  • Damage / Bot Lane
  • Support
  • Jungle / Damage

If there is a lack of players willing to play a certain role that is hurting queue times (*cough* support), then incentives in the form of extra IP or something can be given to encourage more people to enter the queue with that role checked.

Support for Non-Meta play:
Along with the 5 checkboxes as described above, another checkbox can be added to the queue system for "Alternative Meta." Players who queue with this box checked get matched with other players who have it checked. In this case, it would be up to those players to decide what their game plan is once they get into the lobby. All mid? 2 Mid? 2 top? These things would have to be decided by the team once they get into lobby. Non-Meta matched teams would still get to play against standard meta teams.

The Matching System Options:
There are couple options in the way this could be handled:
1. Riot could randomly assign you a role from the ones you had checked that you were willing to play.
2. OR Riot's matchmaking system could be completely hidden in the background and champion select could continue to work as it currently does.

If option #1 is chosen, your role would be displayed in the lobby so your teammates can see it. This would eliminate the need to talk about lanes and who is going where.

If option #2 is chosen by Riot, then matchmaking wouldn't change in its look and feel at all from how it currently exists; you would get into a lobby and state your main lane preference, and work out who goes where based on calls and pick order (i.e. just like we do now). The difference in this case would be the assurance that of the 5 people matched, at least 1 person is willing to do every role without complaining.


Option #2 could still result in arguments, as in the following case:
First pick's checked roles: Mid, Top - their preference is Mid.
Last pick's checked role(s): Mid
For that reason I'd favor #1, but #2 would still be an improvement over the current queue system.


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AlchemistRa1n

Senior Member

03-13-2013

1.) Instead of instant vote to kick, allow a player to get three strikes for being reported. Once an account has three strikes, allow the team the option to kick that player. This gives the community the opportunity to ignore toxic players all together. Three strikes because it's unlikely someone will get banned 3 times and not have done something wrong.

2.) I like this. I think you should be able to pick a primary and secondary roll you like to play, as most players play at least two rolls well. This avoids trolls locking in all rolls.

3.) Refer to 1.)


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Mr Solemn

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Since I'm here, perhaps I should put my own two cents' worth of opinion into this thread.

I fully agree with the dev team when considering the option of Vote Kicking. For instance, when playing Normals, I might like to play Lulu in mid lane as a mage instead of a support. While I'm somewhat good with her skillset in that situation, if someone doesn't like my choice or thinks that I'm trying to troll my own team, what's keeping them from kicking me out and prolonging the queue for themselves, five other people, and myself as well? I'd rather not have to go through the ordeal of waiting in the queue for several minutes just to get kicked out again (rinse and repeat).

A 'lane chooser' might work (and I like the idea of being able to be set up with others that know what they're doing with their roles), but here's another issue: when you provide individuals with a choice in lanes, you're going to have an excess of people choosing one lane, and hey, presto! You've got five people wanting bot lane, and only two or three wanting any of the others, which is an unfair balance, and a potential queue lengthener, for one or two of those five people wanting bot may have to wait for others who want other lanes to get done with their games before they can participate. Shouldn't everyone have an equal opportunity to play the game at all?

And, finally, there's Prisoner's Island. Let's face it - we'd all love the trolls to stick together and leave us 'nicer' players alone. But when you stick several negative people together, the negativity grows - so much so, in fact, that those trolls might never change their attitude. And what if you were to be sentenced there? Would you want to play this game if you were forced to constantly match up with those possessing horrible attitudes, shouting at you every chance you got?

But I'd like to ask something of the Riot team (and especially Lyte): when in Draft Pick, why is there not a voting system for the bans? When in that particular queue, I find that it is rather difficult to voice my opinion on which champion I'd like to see banned from the match - when I'm steamrolled in my request to ban someone like Darius or Olaf (or someone else that could snowball the team), and then that champ goes on to slaughter my team in-game, it's not an enjoyable experience.

If I may make a suggestion, why not implement a voting system, where each player on a team votes to ban a champion from the game, and allowing the majority of the votes to make up this ban, or having the captain choose from the votes in order to do so? While just about any idea on this subject will naturally have its flaws, what would your thoughts be upon this one?

Thanks for your time, guys.

EDIT: And, for the record, why not have the more foul-mouthed individuals restricted from using the chat in-game? More often than not, pings are a much better way to communicate, and since typing can get you killed out there if you're not careful, this might be a good way to keep 'trolls' from creating a toxic scenario.


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AFOM

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Creating complete satisfaction in the champ select environment is impossible for at least two reasons:
1) Player role preference does not always match up.
2) An individual's idea of what is best for the team may not be shared (for instance, double-bruiser bot instead of AD + support, or just thinking Tryndamere is a troll pick).

None of the three common ideas proposed can fix both of these issues.
1) Vote-kick falls prey to the tyranny of the majority. I can imagine scenarios at high Elo in which a player is known to have been a troll, and therefore every lobby in which he queues votes to kick him immediately and he can never play.
2) Dungeon-finder is impossible to implement. Different champions perform different roles within a given team or even a given lane. And even if you queue up by choosing a lane, how do you handle bottom lane, which typically has two people? What if you want to try a lane-swap? What if you want to play double-bruiser bot instead of AD + support? What if you want to double-jungle, Blitzstar style?
3) Prisoner's Island does nothing to improve the game--it only takes an existing problem and sweeps it under the rug, and creates more procedural problems at the same time.

Essentially, Riot, your only option is to take a strong stand on pick priority being determined by pick order. It's true that some people will be unhappy with their roles, or with their teamcomps. But ultimately, it's a team game, and that means I, as a player, have a responsibility to make the best of what I'm given. No one player, or even a group of players in a team, should ever have the authority to say "These specifications are the only best way to play this game," and then enforce that opinion on others.

Players have to have autonomy, but they don't have to like the results. And if they decide the match isn't worth playing, they can dodge.

So I think the best method is to overtly declare that pick priority follows pick order, and then make an actual Dodge button instead of forcing players to close the program. Maybe give players a certain number of "free" dodges every month or week. Maybe make a clear scaling punishment system for dodging. I think it's the dodging system which holds to key to greater satisfaction, rather than any queuing format.

But always make it clear that players can choose whether to play the game, but not how to play the game.


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Malrock3

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by George0fDaJungle View Post
PLEASE! Please, pick WoW Dungeon Finder. It would be so easy to just have queues for 5 different positions. No more fighting, no disagreement. This would do so much to prevent toxicity in select poisoning a game before it begins. As Lyte said, toxicity in select is almost never a player's fault, it is an automatic result necessitated by the current champ select system. Just as important as removing toxicity, players would get to play what they want, every game.

There is no downside. Here are the possible objections and their answers:

1: Long queue times.

Answer: Only for the roles highest in demand. Picking support would result in an insta-game with zero wait time, and adc and jungle would almost certainly have short queues, compared to mid and top. If everyone wants to play mid, then it is right and proper there be a wait time for that.

2: It enforces the meta.

Answer: No it doesn't. Because all you sign up for is "top lane" or "mid" or "jungle". You could play any kind of champion you want in these positions. The only exception might need to be made for bot lane, where players should probably have to sign up for "adc" and "support". Since these are the roles found in bot lane 99.9% of the time, I think this does not 'enforce' anything, but takes into account reality. In any case, players who have signed up for adc and support could always talk to their team and agree to run double bruisers, or whatever else. Lane swapping is a team affair, and could obviously be done as well, with team consent. All the queue selection does is make it clear you are positioned in one lane, that no one else can 'call' or claim is theirs without a team discussion.

The game would improve so much with this change. Let people queue for a lane of their choice, please.

This would have to be added to report options: "Griefing: refusing to play in assigned lane."

Note: As some people have mentioned, the queue must be for lane, and not for role (aka "healer", as Lyte put it). There are too many champions that can be used in too many lanes, to pigeonhole a lane to one type of champion. For instance, having someone queue as "AP caster" would be totally incorrect, since not every team even uses this type of champion. But every team does assign someone to mid lane, someone top, etc. This is true of every pro team in the world, and certainly of every team in solo queue.
I agree with this


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Another thought; I simply want to play League by myself because MOBAs are my favorite kind of game and all the others of this kind suck, but I'll deal with 4 other people if I have to. What sort of representation do we have?