Let's talk about Champ Select

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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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03-13-2013
24 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solari Eclipse View Post
I don't know if I honestly agree with there being a difficulty in implementing it in ranked. Just wondering but if there was a Prisoner's island, what is the population of it? What tiers would they mostly come from? I imagine the answer is bronze.

What if it was made into its own separate league. And the only way you could leave the tier was through not LP but maybe some kind of "reform points?" And then you just pop back into your normal tier. I feel like if you make it possible to get in, and a pain to get out, but still possible, and it has to be earned, then it would certainly discourage the play it self. Earning reform points would be a difficult thing to compute, but things like wins, reports, honors given, ignores, mutes, could all go into deciding whether or not you are improving. And subsequent stays in the Prisoner leagues would increase the difficulty to leave them.

I would also use that fancy popup display from gifting and promoting to provide warnings to players close to moving laterally into the prison league.

If all the players were bronze, then just a few dump leagues would suffice, right? It might be more challenging if there are substantial populations in silver, gold, plat, etc.
Why would Prisoner's Island be mainly Bronze players? Players of all skill levels can have toxic behaviors.


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gr1m5

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ektomorf View Post
Or they click on player 2, see they aren't as good as they THINK they are.
Get mad and we solve nothing
Right, that's a possibility. Like I said, it isn't really a total solution, more of an add-on to previously discussed solutions. Just to have some visual way to identify player's strengths and weaknesses would help a lot.


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DrUnne

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Option 1: Vote Kick

While the idea itself has merit, I feel that it will only give Trolls a whole different avenue to create a toxic environment.

1) Pre-mades being able to force someone to play a role by threat of kicking

2) Players simply waiting until the game starts to begin to troll.

3) People looking up others stats on various websites, then posting them in the pre-game chat to try and force "undesirable" players to be kicked.

4) Continued Role calling vs Pick Order. Someone doesn't get their way, they try to force a kick.


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Basque

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team
This one would be EXCELENT. Specially because it would simmer down the rush to call out roles and no one will have to play the support just because they were slow or lastpick, which is seriously dumb. I want a dude that actually plays support, not someone that was forced into it.
Between calling roles and waiting for people to snap their neurons togethers, it creates a towic envirorment by itself... I know that I've become way more toxic than I ever was... It's just really frustating to have people not reason and being polite works maybe 1 in 20 games, so why bother? (not saying it's right, just saying, it wears you down).


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Tryndameister

Senior Member

03-13-2013

1) Vote Kick | Players want the ability to vote kick toxic players from Champ Select.
Great idea in principle but there are way too many cases for potential abuse.
1. Pre-mades would gain incredible power which can be abused in champ select.
2. Sub-par picks/ people who have been counter picked may be kicked from champ select.
3. Enemy team has a stronger comp? Lets kick a player, someone has to go.


2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team
This also has terrible abuse cases.
1. As a player who enjoys support, this would work well for me, but I like running j4 support and then demanding top.
2. People would use this system to grief, see one. Support queues would be short, so people would queue as supports and then not play meta.
3. This would re-enforce the meta-game. That is not a direction that I would like to see league take. There is already too much meta-enforcement in normals.

3) Prisoner’s Island | Players want matchmaking to pair toxic players with toxic players, and positive players with positive players.
This is actually pretty funny. Concerns.
1. Player x may be positive and player y is also positive. Player z is better than player y, but is a real jerk. Should x be paired with worse players, provided they are nicer? Match making imbalances would likely occur. A lot of jerks are really good at this game and a lot of nice guys are bad.
2. Would this effect ranked play?
3. Would this make league nicer play, rather than a more competitive and challenging one? (and is that what we value here?)

My Suggestion.
4). Kick hard randoms (at least in ranked).

The only thing that match making really needs is for people who hard random (i.e. time runs out and they are picked for) or who never connect to the room need to be kicked from champ select and everyone should be put back into queue. Too many times have I been put with a hard random with the wrong summoners and masteries simply because they did not connect. This seems like a really easy and non-controversial fix to match making.

Hope this helps lyte. Hope you can save us from ourselves.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango027 View Post
There I'd no way currently to ensure that a teammate will be happy with any decision an individual player will make. There is nothing stopping me from taking revive teleport karma mid, it can be a viable pick.
Then why did you make that pick with 'that' team, and not a team that was more supportive of it?
Quote:
Also, if my ADC expects a zero CS passive support, but I was planning on kill lane, who is at fault?
Both of you, neither communicated the lane
Quote:
What if instead of going for roles, think of lining up for positions: solo lane (2 per team), duo lane (2 per team), and a jungler (1 per team). Because, let us be honest, jungle is not going any where.
The problem with this i think is people are still going to have in-fighting over 'what' you picked, not just 'where' you picked. it ignores this problem and keeps it ambiguous.


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Demonicparadox

Junior Member

03-13-2013

Here is my idea on how to solve roles. when you load in to champion select
the game will post your win percentage in each lane. this way there can be no arguing and each player can quickly asses what player is best in what lane. i know there are some flaws to this but i believe this is a decent solution.


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dafedidi

Senior Member

03-13-2013

From my point of view, I see it this way :

I am matchmad with random people from random country that I don't know anything about, and I have to trust them. Completly impossible.

We need informations. This is the key point. As ADC, I'm ok to support someone else who is good. Well, in soloQ, I can't. Is that guy good enough to carry the game that I KNOW I can carry ? So, why should I let him my place ? Just to lose ?

And this last point is important. When I get an other role than ADC, I mostly lose my game. Simply because I couldn't carry as I please, and our ADC failed hard.

How to solve it ?

IMO, we need informations about how good they are in soloQ. If that guy is good with X champions, I need to know it simply. If he wins 75% games as ADC I need to know it. From there I can totaly trust that guy and support/help and not yell at him if he fails because I know that guy has a bad game.

Vote kick is cool too, sometimes, you have trolls that just want to troll for the lolz. Kick him, and save 20 min for you is great. Then if he wants, he can troll someone else elsewhere.

This is my opinion.


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Bkiplal

Junior Member

03-13-2013

I think a lot of anxiety stems from the time limit given to players in champion select. While it is true some players go in with the mindset of 'I'll pick whatever we need', other players are only good at mid, top, etc.

I agree with the WoW Dungeon finder, but it should not factor into team matchmaking. When you queue up to join a game, you should be able to pick which lanes you prefer (Top, mid, jungle, bot, support, or any) and display that within champion select. It frees up that 25-30 seconds where the team runs around trying to figure out where people are going to shake out. I think if people see where others strengths lie, people would be more open to switching it up, instead of the current system where they don't know who they're playing with and just start bickering among each other. Plus, those 30 extra seconds allows perhaps unconventional strategies to be discussed rather then shoehorning them into specific roles.


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Cyraknoss

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Lots of people mention Vote Kick, I think it COULD work if it's hyper restrictive.
1) Each lobby gets 1 vote attempt per team. Ensures you dont get vote kick spamming like some people will do with surrender votes.
2) To kick someone a vote requires 4 yes votes.
3) The kicked person suffers no time or LP penalty, so they can instantly queue for another match, but the system keeps a running tally of how often they get kicked similar to how leaver buster watches for frequent dodgers. This means if you're unjustly kicked you suffer no penalty but negative players will eventually get dealt punishments.
3) Each player has an internal timer of 5 minutes before they can vote yes or initiate a Vote Kick again. This timer is short enough that you will always be able to vote/initiate at the start of a new game, but long enough that your lobby can only possibly kick 1 person per side so a maximum of 3 lobbies before a game starts assuming no dodges. The long timer before you can vote yes/initiate will keep most players and teams from using it simply as a bullying tool. Because they only get the 1 chance of kicking a person people will be far less likely to expend it on the guy who just wants to run Karthus jungle for fear of getting a guy who demands mid, doesnt get it and runs TP Revive AD Veigar trio bot.
5)Last but not least, only the individual can see if his vote kick is up or on cooldown. This is rather important because if everyone can see the timer than you'd give free license to troll for others in the lobby rather than them wondering if they could get kicked if they're a jerk.