Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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sleepykev

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Junior Member

03-13-2013

What we need isnt a vote kick(too easily abusable)..
we need a TEAM DODGE VOTE...its always unfair for 1 person to have to dodge n lose LP alone just cu zof some troll.....
team dodge voting - xx mins wait to Q again for evryone on the team ..no loss of LP..
only issue I see is how to report the troll....not sure how reliable the "take screenshot and send to player support" method is....


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Mestergrog

Senior Member

03-13-2013

For #2, the WoW Dungeon Finder, instead of just queuing for a specific role, I think a player should be able to have "tags" that signify what they play best at. So, for example, a player could have multiple tags like: "Support, ADC" or it could be based on lanes; they can't play mid well, it could be "Bottom Lane, Top Lane, Jungle". That way they can be more versatile during champ select and not be locked into the role they queue for.

Or the tags could be categorized differently, so if a player likes to play a lot of jungle Maokai and TF mid, they would have a "Ganker" tag, if they like Zyra or Malphite they could have an "Initiator" tag, if they're good at playing autoattack champions they would have the "DPS" tag, etc.

Or everyone could have a mini-list of what champions they prefer to pick.

Or any combination of these, really.

And it wouldn't be hard to abuse this multiple tags system. If someone tagged himself as Top, Support just to quicken his queue time (since support is more sought after and has less overall players) but doesn't actually want support, the other players can report him when they find out in Champ select that he isn't willing to support. Report for "false tag" or something.

And #3, Prisoner's Island, is a great idea. It would be almost like Elo hell, but you don't need to be skilled to get out, you just have to start acting nicer and not get any more punishments. (Although reports for players in Prisoner island should be looked at extra closely, since there will probably be a lot of troll-reporting). If you escape Prisoner island and start acting toxic again, you slide right back in. Sounds good to me.


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Stingers135

Junior Member

03-13-2013

1) What are the problems?
2) What are some potential solutions?



1) The main problem I see are that humans have egos and these tend to get into the way of civility when there are no consequences for their actions.

2) Potential solutions:
A) Kick button. This would give a consequence for bad behavior, as determined by the community. Something where if all 4 members of the team voted you out, you're kicked out of queue and matchmaking restarts.

I've seen a lot of resistance for this idea, as its been said that this feature could be used for a premade group to gang up on another player. But then I'd have to question the validity of 4 friends getting together and being a jerk to some stranger for no reason. Would it happen? Certainly, but I very much doubt it would happen with much frequency. I rarely seem to encounter premade groups of 4 when I'm playing SoloQ, so with the dearth of them already, getting a bunch together specifically for the purpose of pissing strangers off? Ehhh...it seems to me like the positives far outweigh the negatives here.

I've also seen it claimed that it will lead to people more rigidly sticking to the meta ("Soraka Jungle KICK THIS SCRUB OR FEED GG"), but the fact of the matter is, all four people have to agree for the kick to go through. If all four people really were so confident that this person will lose them the game with their off the wall pick, then as the oddball picker, you were probably going to have a bad game anyway. I can't tell you how many times that I've tried something that doesn't fit into the meta exactly, our team starts to lose, and immediately all players start to blame me for everything they can think of even if I'm not even involved. People will blame anyone they can besides themselves, its just human nature.

B) My current solution to toxicity in champ select without the holy grail of a kick button is to confront the person's ego head on. For example, I call mid, first, no problem. Then XxXSCRUBXxX comes in and starts with the "MID OR FEED IDC" bull****. I've had the most success with questioning their motives: "Why do you have to do this man? Why can't you just help the team? Why are you letting your ego get in the way of a game? Why are you purposefully throwing the game in champ select before we even start? Is your ego that important that you have to feed it like this?" Stuff like that, questioning someones motives makes them think as well, and before you know it they've turned from Internet Troll to decent human being and acknowledge that they are being toxic. Or of course they just keep saying STFU SCRUB I RAPE UR MOM etc etc, but some people just won't listen. It's the best solution I've found at any rate.


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davin

Senior User Researcher

03-13-2013
22 of 55 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meisterbrau View Post
Yeah, plz don't ever show my stats and don't show me my teammates stats before the match.

Don't want my own confirmation bias to kick in

What might be useful:
- Champions I don't like playing against.
-> A general consensus about this in the team would lead to 3 quick and easy bans.
I like the idea of knowing what people don't like playing against. Helps them inform the Captain what they don't like in Draft. I think we're all used to the rapid calling of champions during the ban phase. Sometimes resulting in accidental bans of a champion someone is trying to say they're planning on playing.


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ZodiacLegend

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Vote Kick would be the best all around. The group (or majority of) will be more happier if they remove a piece that isn't going to help them.

The WoW dungeon scenario expects a meta and tries to fill roles of said meta. It would be hard for anyone who tries to play against the meta. From the past, Riot has try to encourage breaking the mold of a "meta".

Prisoner's Island is hard to carry out. From your example, it's hard to punish people based on "toxicity" because of bad days. Unless bigger system is put in place to keep the bads from the goods, this is impossible.


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Skrubbythethird

Senior Member

03-13-2013

At the risk of making an idiotic suggestion... I had an idea I've been toying with.

What if it was made so that when you enter solo queu, you get matched up with four other people, but you aren't faced with a team. So, you get put with four other people, and are given more time to talk to each other and figure out roles, but you don't get matched with another team to do picks / bans until you have a "Ready Check" like they do for raids in WoW. So until everyone checks the "Ready" button, or a set amount of time has passed (Significantly longer than the ~2-3 minutes we have in queu atm) you're just in a lobby talking to your potential 4 teammates.


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theGagne

Member

03-13-2013

My two cents:

Blind pick
Keep the same, it's blind, you expect random picks.

Draft pick
Pre-Game Team Lobby, Sizing Up Your Team
When you queue up for draft pick, after a team is found for you, you are dropped into a chat lobby with them. Each player is announced in the room in some manner, with some sort of information about their play preferences. This could be roles, or could be champions, or both. At this point you can discuss roles, champions, etc. with your team.

Pre-Game Team Lobby, Accepting The Team
You get 30 seconds to look over the team preferences, communicate if necessary, and "accept" or "dodge". At this point you do not see the enemy team. After you accept you go into the normal draft-pick.

Pre-Game Team Lobby, Dodge Penalty?
The dodge at this point may require a very small penalty so that people don't abuse it to queue up with friends (1 min?), but not enough that you don't get stuck with a random troll or that you cannot find a different team that will let you play a "mage" if that's what you want.


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Viro Melchior

Senior Member

03-13-2013

The most important thing is creating incentives before punishments.

That's why I don't like vote kick or prisoner's island. They are trying to tack on punishment approaches, instead of finding a way to encourage players to do the right thing.

Personally, I think "winning the game" is a pretty good encouragement for working as a team and being flexible. So I usually don't get to play mid or top, and then get frustrated when I'm support and get blamed for losses. (Yah, because I sat in lane getting no Cs for 15 minutes, totally my fault we don't have enough damage landing on their carry).

If there was one thing I could change about LoL, it would be mid lane. I get tired of seeing the same FotM mids over and over. A day or two ago I had 4 mid-Akali's in a row. 1 of them sucked, and none were superb. On a whim, I went through the champ list for champions I haven't seen in the past 20ish games. It was almost half of them. 110 champions, with 200 champ picks. In theory, if they were "all equal", I shoulda seen each of them twice.
So when I realized that there were 50 that I hadn't seen at all, it kinda suprised me. Only kinda though.

FotM champs are too FotM.


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Rhuage

Junior Member

03-13-2013

#2 Dungeon finder would be a good choice as a secondary summoners rift option.
So what we have now stays, but there's also the option to set up criteria, and people who have criteria that match yours get matched with you.

Example, you pick "Middle lane", and "Solo". Maybe another guy picks "Bot lane" and "Duo". You guys are then compatible.
This does not mean riot is "enforcing the meta", rather you pick where you want to play, as that is the way the game is played. There could even be an option like "Jungler/roamer" to cover all bases.
You could even pick a primary and secondary, just to speed up queue. Maybe even set it as default if you only play a few roles.

So you get matched with 5 people, none of which want the same role.
That takes away the main source of pre-game conflict.


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butthurtlocker

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Reds, check it

We've already got blind and draft picks, perhaps what we need is more matchmaking styles like this, both for ranked AND normal. Clearly not everyone in this thread is in approval of any one fix to the issue, so why not have a choice? Instead of implementing just one fix, let the player go with what they are comfortable with.

Ranked - Dungeon Finder
Ranked - Vote Kick
Ranked - Prisoner Island

I don't think you would have to split overall ranking by the different playstyles either since this only effects the champion select part of the game.