Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Quackas

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I don't understand how wow-dungeonfinder would force the meta, it would force 1 top 1 mid 2 bot and 1 jung so no duo mid or top(good thing) but as for what the person chooses to play in that role isn't limited. Sure some people might not like a Zed mid but that doesn't stop people from playing Zed mid as it is now; it just lets you know in fact that Zed who is afk after he picked is indeed going mid and not top or jungle. My worry is that these premade calls wouldn't support trading of champs in champ select and counter picking. Otherwise; this is the only solution.


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Helleus

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I can't see anything but the first option being viable. I would hate to see Riot enforce a specific meta and the prisoner's island seems like a poor idea.

Now, for my thoughts on the vote kick system:
Of course it's abusable. I don't think any potential solution to this issue is problem free.

Maybe we don't need a vote-kick system, but instead a separate reporting system. I've seen many people troll pick specifically to cause someone to leave the lobby (normally after they do not get their prefered role). Because of the social dynamics of LoL, a reporting system gives individuals a chance to prove themselves instead of automatically being condemned.

Don't like the fact someone went Nid support? Report them. If they legitimately tried to win, or even succeeded at her role, then that report will probably get sorted out in the end.

This is a system that may takes months to really start creating change, but it may be the fairest approach.


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EmperialGoddess

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Very good ideas, Lyte. But I have some questions and some info.
1) Vote Kick- This is a good idea, but you would have to prevent pre-mades from having too much power. Perhaps, pre-mades votes won't count as much. We all have been in lobbies where 4 man pre-mades have ruined a game for us.

2) WoW Dungeon Finder- I think this is the safest route. You enter a lobby with your designated role/roles. But to prevent queues from having a long wait time people should select the first 2 or 3 roles they would rather have.

3) Prisoner’s Island- A good idea in theory, But how would one get out of prison? What is thw ratios from toxic player to positive players? Would force people to have to go through longer queue waits? Would putting the bad with the bad really makes things better? Or would their behavior still continue?
Maybe to counter this you could have some certain player chosen by you to volunteer an account to promoting good behavior when they're in "prison" Like, a sheriff or guard.


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Praelox

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Prisoner's Island also creates some pretty weird scenarios for players. When players browse through the Tribunal Ban Inquiries forum, there are numerous players who use excessive verbal abuse and racial slurs in their matches; however, they lack the self-awareness or necessary feedback to understand how negative their behavior is. If these same players are on Prisoner's Island, how many of them would understand why they were there, or how to get out? If players don't believe they deserve to be on Prisoner's Island and every other player there is just a jerkwad, doesn't this encourage them to make new accounts to start over, off Prisoner's Island?

If this scenario happens, what was the point of creating Prisoner's Island?
What if, after voting punish on a tribunal case, you were given the option to send an anonymous message to the player of why you pressed the punish button. This would still be able to preserve the anonymity of the Tribunal, and also give players the opportunity to find out what exactly they are doing wrong. If someone never understands what they did wrong, they may never be able to fix their problem. However, if they were sent a message detailing WHY they were punished, they could have the option to reform. Sure, people who get reported could disregard the message and continue to play in the same manner, but it is more than likely they will just end up in the tribunal again. However, if they player truly wants to become a more positive person, they will try to improve on the points noted.
Given that people are willing to spend their time in the Tribunal to try to make the League community a better and more friendly place, I am sure most wouldn't mind giving players feedback on how they can become that positive force.
Just my two cents on the subject.


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EffenSeven

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I love the idea of a vote kick but it would be an abused feature due to Lolking. We all come across the snarky player in champ select who lolkings every teammate.


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BeelzeBuff

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
We are It's a really busy thread, so we can't reply to everyone, but we are reading like crazy. Thank you for everyone's thoughts, we'll be in for a good bit longer. Marathoooon.
So Lyte is discussing queuing for roles, but is worried that it will cement the meta.

And it will. If people HAVE to queue for "Mid, ADC, Support, etcetc" then the meta will be even less dynamic than it is now.

But why be so specific? Let's just call each role what it is. A gold income stream.

There are 4 gold income streams. Top lane, Mid lane, Bot lane, and the Jungle. So have a queue for each of them.

But there are five people. What about the fifth queue? What we commonly call "supports?"

Call them a FREELANCER. They either share another player's gold stream (duo CS lanes, double jungle), or get gold only passively through objectives and kills. (supports, roamers)

"But why do they get such a cool name?"

Because they're the coolest people. Support 4 lyfe 4 mah streets.

If anything, this will INCREASE diversity. People will realize that lane swaps and changes aren't a big deal. Solo queue stagnation will start to look more like pro innovation. New strats will be tried.

And hell, absolute worst case is everything stays the same, except supports get called "Freelancers" instead. That's not a bad worst case scenario, AND IT SOLVES THE QUEUES.


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Sarkhon

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Here's my solution to champion select. Simply add the pre-game and post game chat to the Tribunal and wait and see if that fixes anything. Currently there is 0 incentive for me to be nice in the champ select because I can either get what I want, or I can make them dodge and try again. They can always report me, but when it gets to the tribunal, who's to say that it's even legit that I trolled them? Adding the pre-game chat however, and suddenly you get some context. You get context to maybe why people played poorly (i.e, they got stuck with a role they mentioned to their team they weren't very good/fond of), why they weren't the happiest in game (someone raged at them for locking in w//e), and most importantly, you give the solo players protection from Quad Queu of doom where they force you into a position you don't want to play, or trolling you when you are first pick/first ban first call and you lock in something that they wanted to play.

TL;DR - Pre-game chat and Post Game chat. See what results that yields first. Get the hidden toxics out of the game.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootyMcGunshot View Post
Why does RL-context matter?
Just because someone has had a bad day should be no excuse for them to start raging at somebody.

If I have a bad day at work and come home and beat my wife would I get away with it just because I had a bad day? Hell no.

If someone comes into the game and is an arse they should be justly reported & warned.
Because a game is usually how they relax and wind down, and diffuse in ways 'other than' beating their wife.

if someone's going to have a bad day, it might as well be in a place where they're more likely to cheer up.


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DinnerThyme

Member

03-13-2013

With option 3, maybe a time ban on ranked could be the form of prisoner's island. I'll wager that most people who encounter ragers/flamers etc are playing ranked. Give the person some time to cool off before going back into said "Stressful environment"


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ScarfPilot

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Senior Member

03-13-2013

I think this red discussion is Huge in getting this particular issue worked on it ranked