Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TyrisGC

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team

What are some pros and cons to these ideas? Would they work for League?
Main con to this one is 40 minute queues because next to no one wants to play support or jungler. The proverbial tank and healer roles in such a high demand on WoW.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ogaflow

Senior Member

03-13-2013

It really does boil down to every player wanting to be "that" guy. The guy who carries and makes the biggest impact in each game. I have never met a player who was cool, calm and collected but demanded a position and adamantly refused when anyone attempted to discuss a switch. Enforcing pick order is honestly the best way to handle it, it means everyone gets an equal 20% chance to be the leader and have the first pick of position.

Enforcing pick order won't change the behavior of any of the already non-toxic players, it will however really put a spotlight on any player who is toxic. It will show their inability to work with the team and possibly troll pick/items in the following game.

Another system you could add is pick order based on the players honor. The more honorable the higher the picking seed. This would encourage the playerbase to work together and earn honor so they can play what they want to play. By stacking these two together I think you get a powerful and effective method for dealing with a toxic champion select.

It all breaks down like this. Earn honor to gain a higher seed in pick order for your team. This rewards players for being flexible and cooperative. This also helps out the lower seed players since the players who get to pick earlier ALSO happen to be the players who are more likely to be open to suggestion and the possibility of switching lanes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pryotra

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pryotra View Post
So, In my eyes, prisoners Island does not help alleviate this problem, and what little it may help is circumstantial. Honestly, I think the prisoners Island is a slippery slope Idea, and don't think it is a good avenue to solve this problem. That being said, it would help fight what I call "Toxic smurfing" AKA when a banned player keeps playing on a smurf.

As far as the dungeon finder idea, I think it would not work if copypasta'd straight over, but a variation might work. For example, If you could find a way to display prefrences, or just list general roles (support, ADC, Jungler, Mage, assassin, bruiser, tank) with each one ranked by how we feel we play said roles, then that might help show preferences without making the meta set in stone. Honestly, this could just as easily be ignored, but it also may help some situations. I don't like the idea that you call a role, or you signup for a role, because then it not only solidifies an already strong meta, but it causes other problems. Going top taric? "GG, obviously trolling." Someone decides last second that they want a different lane/get forced into a matchup they know they have problems with? Its now much more difficult to react. Preferences would be nice, but too much heavy handed enforcement would not be a welcome change in my eyes.

As for the last suggestion, the votekick feature. This one has merits, but I see potential for abuse from 4 man premades. Honestly, I think it could work, but premades only get 1 vote, as a whole, and you need at least 3 votes to kick someone. Or something along those lines. That being said, if it was just a lobby eject, and nothing more, I might be okay with a 4 man trolling me out of the lobby. The only downside I see visably is ranked. This would, in a sense, reintroduce a new way to dodge without penalty. I think you would be hard pressed to find a way to make it work without either buffing troll 4mans, or returning a way to dodge. However, it would be much harder to abuse, as all 4 of your teammates would have to agree to help you dodge.

I usually will pick Heimer, but am completely cool with going to any lane (or the jungle, I can do that too). That means that a poor implementation of an idea will most likely hurt me in the long run. Please make wise choices, I am honestly not a toxic player, and work with people alot. To be punished by a system designed to reduce toxicity would be a cruel joke, at best.

Edit: I personally think that most people, when they want a certain role, actually just want to play a certain character/a character from a certain group. That might be something to consider.
Quoted for visability. Off to eat.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BamGfAsRpd

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Well, the best idea would be vote kick, but not taking a duo partner in cosideration. For example, if we want to kick someone, his ranked partner would just say "No"


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Capnredbeard

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I like the idea of giving a team time to discuss what roles they're going to select before the match actually begins. Then at the end of the time, 1-2 min, they have the option to dodge without penalty if they're not comfortable with the team.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rynac

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
The tricky part here is that unlike WoW's Dungeon Finder, we don't have a single way of playing the game. Dungeons in WoW are designed to pretty much fit the tank/dps/heal model.

So when you match people together, you'd need some way of pairing together players who have agreed on a particular strategy or want to play in a certain way. Otherwise you might end up with two people who queued as best-at-Mid, and unless they're fine playing Double Mid, you'd get some pretty similar behaviors going on.
I do agree on the part that there isn't one way to play the game. Yes, there are many different ways to play the game. However, I would guess that most of the more unique strategies are done with a premade 5 man team, not in solo queue. In solo queue, you're ALWAYS going to have a top, a mid, two bot laners and a jungle. If this is not the case, usually its two people wanting the same role and not folding for the other person and choosing something else.

With the role queuing system, just because you pick a role doesn't mean you have to do the same strategy of bruiser top, AP mid, ad carry/support bottom and a jungler. Thats what the pre-game chat is for. Want to do double bruiser bottom? Talk it over with your bot lane partner. Want to do any other strategy? Talk it over with your team. Its not really going to be any different than it is right now for varying strategies.

If you're solo queuing and wanting to do an unorthodox strategy and your teammates don't want to, you still have to accept that and pick according to the norm, whether or not a role-queuing system is in place. If you wanna to a crazy strat, get a team together and do a premade.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bubsay

Member

03-13-2013

One issue I have in regards to the vote-kick system is if someone offers up a vote to kick another player and it doesn't pass and the game begins, there will be a tension between the 2 players in question leading to complications, ie lack of communication or flaming of the 2 players.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Schtiffles

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Posting this again because I'm not sure if you guys are watching edits on the first page :P


Idea 1: How about this: Queuing up for a 'lane'. The system could put a solid amount of emphasis on avoiding grouping those who queued for the same lane together, rather than by role of 'adc, ap' etc. This way players wouldn't be pigeonholed into a single spot or champion (same champ select rules etc), and they'd be less likely to bash heads over who goes where. Essentially it's adding another parameter to matchmaking, kind of like how you added a wins parameter a while back.

-One issue with this is that since it wouldn't necessarily be forced on the system as criteria to meet, when those 2 guys who queued for mid DO get in a game together... well, consequences could be dire.

-Another issue is queue time increases, which I personally feel wouldn't be an issue, but to those who've been spoiled by LoL's ridiculously fast queues, it could be painful. As someone who's waited in hour long DPS queues, LoL queues were a dream come true.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MiziiziM

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by davin View Post
The tricky part here is that unlike WoW's Dungeon Finder, we don't have a single way of playing the game. Dungeons in WoW are designed to pretty much fit the tank/dps/heal model.

So when you match people together, you'd need some way of pairing together players who have agreed on a particular strategy or want to play in a certain way. Otherwise you might end up with two people who queued as best-at-Mid, and unless they're fine playing Double Mid, you'd get some pretty similar behaviors going on.
This is easy to solve.

You let players queue by two options:

1. Number of player(s)
2. Lane desired

Let's say I want to play duo mid. Well I have dropdown boxes that give me options of

1 Top
2 Mid
3 Bot
4 Jungle
5 Roam/Unassigned

If I want to play duo mid, I simply select (2) and (Mid). This will match me with another person who wants duo mid and three other players who get the other available lanes. The three other players might not want to play with a duo mid, but it's STILL a better solution than the current one, because I think three people who get their desired lanes will be MUCH more willing to adapt to two other players who want to try something different.

We can assume that most players will queue for standard meta roles, as in (1 top), (1 mid), (1 jungle), (2 bot).

So those who are less flexible with the current player base will have longer queue times without affecting others. An example would be that people who want to play (2 jungle) will have longer queue times because it will take longer to find 2 players who want double jungle.

Obviously this isn't a perfect solution, because people who want to play duo bot don't necessarily want to support or ADC, but I think this is better than throwing five random people together and hoping for the best.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Solari Eclipse

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This is one of the first discussions I've had on Prisoner's Island where a player talks about the complexities of the system and how it would work with things like Ranked--these are great points.

I agree with you, Prisoner's Island has some unique concerns. Does it make sense to have a global Ranked ladder if you can game the ladder and who you play with by behaving a certain way? This is also why the idea of the matchmaker using "Ignore" or "Mute" information to never match you with certain players has red flags--these types of features provide subtle ways for players to abuse the matchmaker to create matches that are more favorable in a competitive environment liked Ranked queues.

It would be difficult to implement Prisoner's Island for Ranked Queues. But, I also believe it would be a poor player experience for Normal Queues as well.
I don't know if I honestly agree with there being a difficulty in implementing it in ranked. Just wondering but if there was a Prisoner's island, what is the population of it? What tiers would they mostly come from? I imagine the answer is bronze.

What if it was made into its own separate league. And the only way you could leave the tier was through not LP but maybe some kind of "reform points?" And then you just pop back into your normal tier. I feel like if you make it possible to get in, and a pain to get out, but still possible, and it has to be earned, then it would certainly discourage the play it self. Earning reform points would be a difficult thing to compute, but things like wins, reports, honors given, ignores, mutes, could all go into deciding whether or not you are improving. And subsequent stays in the Prisoner leagues would increase the difficulty to leave them.

I would also use that fancy popup display from gifting and promoting to provide warnings to players close to moving laterally into the prison league.

If all the players were bronze, then just a few dump leagues would suffice, right? It might be more challenging if there are substantial populations in silver, gold, plat, etc.