Let's talk about Champ Select

First Riot Post
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Arbaal

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Here is a idea, (personally cant see it working but an idea none the less) have a w/l for the week and all 5 roles kinda like lolking set up but be placed at the champ select be side your big gray box your champ pic shows up after you select a champ(perhaps beside the summons spells you pick, with modifications you could fit it there). that way people can see oo he called me and has won 16 out of 20 games mid ok he can carry me and if someone else calls it and and they see he too can carry from "mid" they can talk it out but there is "proof" other than just calling.


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Poisonpowder

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnburned View Post
Of all 3 of those methods listed, I think that a vote-kick is the most needed right now. I understand that people don't want vote kick to be used to kick players going against the meta or something like that, but the fact is that if it's UNANIMOUS that the other 4 players on the team don't want to be subjected to playing with that person, they shouldn't have to spend 20 minutes in a game that's not enjoyable or face a dodge penalty.

The fact is this: If there's a dodge penalty, there needs to be a vote kick option. Otherwise you're forcing players to suffer consequences for trolls and non-team-players. They either have to face the dodge penalty, or take up a "don't let the trolls win" mentality and play out the game anyway.

I think role queuing will always be a problem for a game like this, because it's very hard to avoid supporting one team comp over another. Queueing needs to be as vague as possible to allow for unique team compositions.

Although there are some decent ideas on that subject in my thread on the topic here.
I was about to make a lengthy post in regards to this thread. It's worth a read and it would solve a lot of disputes before they began.


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Salenar

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I know my long post is loooooooong.

But just give us more time BEFORE selecting champions to discuss and agree on who will take what role.

I don't mind one extra minute if it means I have that minute to nail down who is going to play what.


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Hydrochoerus

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by tolore View Post
WoW dungeon finder WOULD be the way to go if it didn't enforce the meta. My biggest problem is that I will never ever play support, I would literally rather turn my computer off and stare at a black screen fo rthe same period of time. I almost never solo queue because there's a non zero chance the team will try and force me to support.

jungle is just as bad as of the end of season2, and this seas. Jungle and support are also always the roles shoved down peoples throats, so in addition to anything that can be done to make champ select better, a huge part of the problem is that there are two roles that can essentially only be filled/played in such a way that the majority of the player base does not want to. Basically ensuring that 2ish people per match are screwed.


what?


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HongWeiLo

Senior Member

03-13-2013

I honestly like all three ideas.

Vote kick can be abused, but unlikely in ranked, unless it's just players trying to dodge bad composition.

Prisoner's island would probably take some of the stress out of the community. I suppose the downfall here is if you get stuck here and want to change, or if you get stuck here for a few instances rather than several.

Dungeon finder, I can see it going both ways. It'll probably inflate some ELOs, and is not as rewarding to players who do every role. I think someone who plays well at each role should be rewarded. If someone ques as top and does poorly as top consistently, a team is stuck with that top. It doesn't matter whether that person is a good top or not, they just want to be top, so they get put top. On the other hand, if someone says "hey I want top" and you lolking him, and he's 0-14 top in his recent matches - you can force him to do something else.


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BombingLegend

Member

03-13-2013

@Lyte I think you need to establish whether we are talking normal or ranked queues here. I do believe it is ranked that is under discussion which is why the vote kick option was even suggested. If vote kick is chosen it should never be put in normals because 4-man premades will just continuously vote kick people until they find someone willing to play the role that isn't filled by the premade(usually support).

I think the WoW dungeon finder is a good idea but we all know Riot does not want to lock people into the meta and all that stuff. Also this would make queue times extensively long because how often do you get into champ-select and find someone typing in all caps "SUPPORT OF FEED" (I've only had it happen to me once.) What I suggest is having people check what they want to play (or maybe rank them from 1-5) and when they load into champ select have in the yellow text that says when someone connects to champ select a list of who wants to play where. this gets rid of all the "I called it first" and should help at least better facilitate and maybe push people a bit toward the more calmer(IMO) pick order system.


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Captain Meatball

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trylobyte View Post

2) This is definite meta enforcement, and that's a very dangerous territory to get into. Presumably, this means every team you run will have a Top, Mid, Jungle, Support, ADC. On its own merits this would be fine, if restrictive to meta development, but at its worst it makes trolling easier since there's nothing stopping someone from joining queue as support, picking Darius, and saying 'Oh, he can support, he has Apprehend' before going on a KS rampage, or someone queueing up for ADC then picking Karma. It'll also lengthen queue times if there's a shortage of junglers or supports , two traditionally unpopular roles, since they tend to be blame magnets.
Champions are already defined by riot in the roles they are supposed to be. If you choose "support", the only champions you may pick would be ones designated as such.


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C4KE

Senior Member

03-13-2013

#1.Hmm. I think pregame kick is a good idea, but not a solution to the problem at hand. If we are talking in the context of picking, its not going to help arguments, unless the player is clearly toxic. If they are not exactly toxic, but want to play a certain lane, and someone already picked it, there's going to be an argument. I don't think pregame kick will help this problem, though I think it does address toxic players within a Champ select. The only problem I can see is 4 man troll queue teams, who would kick a player from said game whenever they queued.

This brings up another question. What would the penalty be, if any, for somebody who gets kicked? Would it result in LP loss(ranked), or a time kick(normals)? What if said person was not actually trolling, yet they get kicked because of a four man troll queue team? This is the only issue I forsee with this type of solution. Like I said, a good idea, but no a solution to the problem.

#2. No, I don't see a dungeon finder type queue working for LoL. This would enforce a meta, something you guys are seriously trying to avoid. Though, it's possible it could work for ranked, as it is enforced meta anyway. for normals, I don't see this as a solution, unless you can find a way to select a role while still not enforcing a certain meta.

#3. Never heard of prisoner island before. I don't necessarily like this. It seems like an elo hell kind of thing, except it would be real. What happens if people change from being toxic and just stay stuck there because of trolls and other toxic players? How can you really define exactly who belongs there? It just seems like a bad idea in general.

Of course, we haven't even tested the ideas yet, so who knows how well which one would work?


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EffenSeven

Senior Member

03-13-2013

The main fear of having a dungeon finder type queue is that it sets a meta in stone and nobody wants that. But that can be avoided by giving the option.

Say you queue for ranked, you click duo or solo, then it can give you another option if you want a fast queue which will be how it is now or the role queue which would be longer but match you up with 4 other different roles. Obviously the queue will be longer but it would eliminate a lot of problems.

The main problem with Champ Select is people who are 4th or 5th pick get stuck with the roles they may not be great at. It can be pretty demoralizing as a player if you're 5th pick every game and playing support not because you want to, but because you're forced into the role because no one will compromise. Or because someone ahead of you who decided to take the role you wanted when you're overall better at that role.


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InertBlowfish

Senior Member

03-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
These are some major problems with Champ Select that we’ve identified in our research. So what’s next? A lot of players have suggested the following:

1) Vote Kick | Players want the ability to vote kick toxic players from Champ Select.
2) WoW Dungeon Finder | Players want the ability to queue up for a particular role like “Healer” and “DPS” and placed into a Champ Select with a team
3) Prisoner’s Island | Players want matchmaking to pair toxic players with toxic players, and positive players with positive players.

What are some pros and cons to these ideas? Would they work for League?
Okay, let's break this down like some ghetto rapper.

Option 1)
Pros: Avoid angry players, avoid blatant trolls, will encourage a lot of communication
Cons: Easily abused to 'dodge' a game by picking on one player and kicking them. It will be hard to play a non-standard team comp.

Conclusion: I think this system should be coupled with another system to make it viable (such as option 2) or else you will be taking from Peter, and giving to Paul (the power to troll, that is). Also, you're only avoiding the problem by kicking them and not destroying the roots.

Option 2)
Pros: Get the role you desire 99% of the time. Never have to be forced to play something you're bad at. Could, potentially give a more accurate reading of skill level.
Cons: System can easily be trolled by picking support as your role and getting insta queue, only to lock any other champ. Longer queues if you only were to pick a combo of ADC/APC or similar.

Conclusion: I think this could work if coupled with option 1 to get rid of the blatant trolls who queue and then don't pick to match their role. If you were to only play your desired role that you're good at, you could see an inflation of elo; I'm not sure if that's a pro or a con but I thought I should include it.

Option 3) I'm not going to make a comment on this, as I am completely bias against the Tribunal. I haven't been banned, but I just don't like the system. I'm a hippie like that.

I honestly think for normal queues, these systems aren't necessary as it's a more casual environment; putting in so many measures just to start a casual game is going to severely affect accessibility.

Having a couple of extra steps for people who play ranked and are playing seriously is not a problem.